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problems in a net upgrade to Debian 8.1
by zlinw＠mcmedia.com.au 25 Jun '15

25 Jun '15

One of my systems has had Debian 7.x (AMD64) installed from 3 DVD's and subsequently it has been upgraded over the internet to testing a number of times. The last of these upgrades was sometime back (6 months or so). This was upgraded to 8.1 yesterday. Unfortunately its left the package system in a poor state. Note, previous experience doing this shows Debian's package system does not like this combination (install from cd/dvd and update via the internet) to go beyond the next version number. Aptitude wants to remove a large number of packages like blender, gimp, exiv2, the list going on and on. dselect how ever is much more on the ball, it only wanting to remove imagemagik and graphicsmagik. Apt does not appear to know what its doing, for instance it wishs to remove blender for 2 unmet dependencies. Curiously dselect, dpkg AND looking in the /var/lib/dpkg/info directory shows these dependcies ARE on the system. It's distinctly possible apt is not getting on well with a system thats been instaled from DVD's. I have suffered from similar package system corruption from this cause in the past. The problem being as almost (iff not all) debian developers use a net install and upgrade the CD/DVD install does not get tested very well. Its generally possible to resolve a situation like this with dpkg, it does require though much mucking around. Note: Both the apt package lists and the dpkg package lists have been updated, experience that these being out of sync can cause weird problems. Anyone have any ideas, it looks as though I may have to install 8.1 from scratch, something I am NOT really looking forward to due to what packages I like to select, package selection taking forever. Lindsay

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Re: problems in a net upgrade to Debian 8.1
by zlinw＠mcmedia.com.au 24 Jun '15

24 Jun '15

On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 10:45:16 Chris Samuel said, > On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 10:25:15 AM zlinw(a)mcmedia.com.au wrote: >> I am NOT dreamming this up, I did an apt-get update followed by an apt >> dist-upgrade to check this out,and the val/lib/dpkg/availibilty file was >> not touched >My wild guess is that you're looking at the atime of the file, and if your >kernel has relatime set (which has been the default for a while) then that >won't get updated if the file hasn't been modified since the last time >anything accessed it (unless it's a day or more since the last access, when >it will get updated). I am going to stick to my guns here, in this case when dselect update was done the availibilty files creation time was set to 0810, the time the file was writen to. Apt-get update, and apt dist-upgrade was done at 1010 the availibilty files creation time stayed at 0810, also its size did _Not_ change. This would seem to indicate the file was not writen to. I checked this again just now, apt-get update does not write to this file, where as dselect update does. Doing an strace on apt-get update shows it writes to files in the /var/lib/apt/lists directory and to the /var/lib/dpkg/status file but it does __not__ write to the availibilty file. So on my systems apt and dselect do have a different idea of what is availible. Lindsay

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Call for Papers for linux.conf.au 2016 in Geelong now open!
by Donna Benjamin 23 Jun '15

23 Jun '15

linux.conf.au 2016 Geelong, Australia - LCA By the Bay are delighted to announce #CfP is now open We're delighted to announce that the Call for Presentations for the conference, to be held 1st-5th February at Deakin University's Waterfront Campus, are now open. CfP will remain open until 6th July. linux.conf.au/cfp ----------------- Given the recent advances in wearable technology, embedded platforms, and fruitful marriages between open design and technology, open source software and hardware is delivering a number of tangible and intangible benefits for our daily lives. Life is better with Linux. -------------------------- And that’s exactly what our conference theme is. linux.conf.au 2016 will focus on how Linux and open source technologies are improving lives - through humanitarian projects, wearables that give us greater control and choice over our health and habits, and which enrich our lives through protecting our privacy and our ‘digital health’. ** What types of presentations are being sought?** -------------------------------------------------- * Presentations - the standard, time-tested format for most of linux.conf.au. A sage on the stage presents interesting and hopefully informative and engaging content, with time for questions. Around 45 mins total. * Tutorials - double slots with a defined syllabus, where delegates walk out with a key skill or ability. Some prep work is usually required. * Prototypes - we’d like to do something different this year and introduce 45 minute sessions called ‘Prototypes’ - where Makers, Hackers, and Voiders are able to show and tell what they’ve made. It could be a hardware prototype, a software prototype, or a ‘wetware’ prototype - where technology is interacting with the biomedical field for things like implantable NFC chips. ** What presentation topics are welcomed? ** -------------------------------------------- We’re still expecting to have our time-honoured classic talks - the state of the Linux Kernel, advancements in architecture, storage, file systems and utilities. But we’d also like to see lots of talks from people who use Linux and F/LOSS to make our lives better. To make better people. And a better humanity. How do we develop for wearables and implantables? How do you do unit tests for an implantable wetware device? What happens when we see the first IoT murder? And who owns our data from wearable devices - us, or our insurance companies? Linux is now embedded in a raft of wearable, tiny devices - which present challenges and opportunities to be met and maximised. These are the stories we would like to hear. ** What about Miniconfs? ** --------------------------- Miniconference proposals are also now welcome. Miniconf #CfP will close on 6th July. See https://linux.conf.au/programme/miniconfs for more details ** How do I submit to the #CfP? ** ---------------------------------- 1. Go to http://linux.conf.au 2. Create an account 3. Confirm your email address 4. On the conference website, log in and choose 'Submit a Proposal' from the left hand menu 5. Fill out the required information - remember, the more info you provide, the better informed Papers Committee will be. ** How do I stay in touch? ** ----------------------------- Potential Delegates and Speakers are encouraged to remain up to date with conference news through the following channels; Website: https://linux.conf.au Twitter: @linuxconfau, hashtag #lca2016 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lcabythebay Google+: https://www.google.com/+LcabythebayOrgAu Lanyrd: http://lanyrd.com/2016/linuxconfau/ IRC: #linux.conf.au on freenode.net Email: info(a)lcabythebay.org.au Announce mailing list: http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/lca-announce We warmly encourage you to forward this announcement to technical communities you may be involved in.

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Antispam - 2015 edition
by Jason White 23 Jun '15

23 Jun '15

Greetings to all on the list. I'm using CRM114 to filter all of the mail that passes the restrictions defined in my Postfix configuration. Some spam still finds its way through. These days, I'm relying extensively on Dovecot IMAP to enable retrieval of mail by multiple devices (two laptops, a phone, and a tablet that could receive mail but hasn't been configured to do so yet). What's the best way to set up automatic retraining of messages on the server Several options come to mind, including incron, a systemd timer unit, a cron job. The desired effect is: Everything that is moved into the spam folder from elsewhere is classified as spam. Everything moved out of the spam folder is retrained as good. Suggestions?

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Re: [luv-beginners] linux noob - install problems, installfests?
by Wen Lin 22 Jun '15

22 Jun '15

Hi Justin, Are you able to bring just your desktop to our Linux Beginners Workshop this coming Sat 20 June? The address is: VPAC 110 Victoria St, Carlton South VIC 3053. Quite a number of us will be there, and can have a closer look at your SSD and troubleshooting. Would like to help. Wen On Jun 14, 2015 11:10 PM, "Justin Fisher" <justinlewisfisher(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Wen, > > I'm still no further along with this install. I have tried again today > with the KXstudio live disc, and for whatever reason the ssd is now no > longer being recognized from the live disc and from Win7. The instructions > listed in the links you sent I had pretty much already followed as I had > used this guide > http://www.linuxbsdos.com/2012/07/23/dual-boot-ubuntu-12-04-and-windows-7-o… > . I checked my bios and made sure i selected ahci where it was applicable > but this did not fix anything. I have to say i am out of ideas (and > motivation) here and will need some help if you are able to spare some > time. Many thanks. > > Justin > > On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 10:49 AM, Trent W. Buck <trentbuck(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Wen Lin wrote: >> > One key point: *BIOS and UEFI: set it to AHCI* >> >> Unless you're dual-booting, *always* set your SATA controllers to AHCI. >> The options "legacy", "hybrid" and "PATA" are worse choices for Linux. >> >> Erratum: current hardware seems to add NVMe, which appears to be better? >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NVMe_vs_AHCI >> >> > using the parameter 'noatime'. >> >> The default should be relatime (check /proc/mounts), >> which should be near enough. >> >> Changing it to noatime will break a handful of programs, >> but you probably don't use them anyway. >> > >

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Re: problems in a net upgrade to Debian 8.1
by zlinw＠mcmedia.com.au 20 Jun '15

20 Jun '15

On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 10:02:05 Craig Sanders said, On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 09:34:43AM +1000, zlinw(a)mcmedia.com.au wrote: >> Further to my previous post, >> >> As far as I can find out dselect and dpkg use /var/lib/dpkg/available >> for there package list but apt uses the various files in......... >> >> /var/lib/apt/lists >wrong. I am NOT dreamming this up, I did an apt-get update followed by an apt dist-upgrade to check this out,and the val/lib/dpkg/availibilty file was not touched, where apt is getting its info from on my system I do not know but its ____not____ from the /var/lib/dpkg/available file. Its possible a full dvd install sets up some different system, I do not know. Lindsay

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Re: problems in a net upgrade to Debian 8.1
by zlinw＠mcmedia.com.au 20 Jun '15

20 Jun '15

Further to my previous post, As far as I can find out dselect and dpkg use /var/lib/dpkg/available for there package list but apt uses the various files in......... /var/lib/apt/lists on my system these are.... dl.google.com_linux_earth_deb_dists_stable_Release dl.google.com_linux_earth_deb_dists_stable_Release.gpg dl.google.com_linux_earth_deb_dists_stable_main_binary-i386_Packages ftp.debian.org_debian_dists_testing_InRelease ftp.debian.org_debian_dists_testing_contrib_binary-i386_Packages ftp.debian.org_debian_dists_testing_contrib_binary-i386_Packages.IndexDiff ftp.debian.org_debian_dists_testing_contrib_i18n_Translation-en ftp.debian.org_debian_dists_testing_contrib_i18n_Translation-en.IndexDiff ftp.debian.org_debian_dists_testing_main_binary-i386_Packages ftp.debian.org_debian_dists_testing_main_binary-i386_Packages.IndexDiff ftp.debian.org_debian_dists_testing_main_i18n_Translation-en ftp.debian.org_debian_dists_testing_main_i18n_Translation-en.IndexDiff ftp.debian.org_debian_dists_testing_non-free_binary-i386_Packages ftp.debian.org_debian_dists_testing_non-free_binary-i386_Packages.IndexDiff ftp.debian.org_debian_dists_testing_non-free_i18n_Translation-en ftp.debian.org_debian_dists_testing_non-free_i18n_Translation-en.IndexDiff I assume all use /var/lib/dpkg/status, because different lists are used the system can get out of step. Further more it seems as apt is more likely omit packages from its lists. I have never had dpkg and apt report the same number of packages, you can get close, currently the list of installed packages for both differs by 2 2815 for apt 2817 for dpkg. Interestingly "apt-move sync" which is supposed to produce a local mirror of all installed packages on your system only produced 2400 odd packages for the above system. I have no idea what debians package system thinks its doing. Note: this is what I call "getting out of step", on an initial install all the above numbers _nearly_ match. Why anyone in debian though it was a great idea to have two separate non-synced package lists is beyond "this little black duck". Lindsay

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Re: problems in a net upgrade to Debian 8.1On
by zlinw＠mcmedia.com.au 19 Jun '15

19 Jun '15

On Fri, 19 Jun 2015 11:26:49 Craig Sanders said, On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 04:39:26AM +1000, zlinw(a)mcmedia.com.au wrote: >> and _____BEFORE______ doing any dist-upgrade I ALWAYS check what will >> happen using dselect as unlike aptitude it will display every change >> that will be done. >that's what 'apt-get -d -u dist-upgrade' is for. it not only limits Thanks for the tip, I will give it a go, for various reasons though I prefer dselect. >> IMPORTANT point here apt and dselect use different package lists both >> these need to be updated separately to keep the system in sync. >please stop saying this because it's not true. >apt-get, aptitude, dselect, dpkg and even the GUI versions of same *ALL* >use >/var/lib/dpkg/status and /var/lib/dpkg/available. I beg to differ here, on my systems apt-get update does ___not___ touch /var/lib/dpkg/status and /var/lib/dpkg/available. Also after such an update dselect does ___not___ show any change, but after doing "dselect update", the /var/lib/dpkg/available but status remains as it was. >> Russell Coker said, >> >> >I've had ongoing problems with aptitude insisting on removing things >> >I want. >> >> I have checked this out and apt appears not te be aware of some >> packages. as previously stated in one of my cases "blender", apt >> wanted to remove it due to two missing dependencies, both packages >> were installed and dselect was aware of them apt was not. >if this actually happened as you remember it,then it was most likely due to >versioned dependencies. a dependency can be declared not just on a package The version numbers ___were___ correct, I checked this explicitly, for some reason apt simply ignored this while dselect and dpkg did not. From all of the above I have assumed apt and dselect ___do___ use different package and status lists. One thing I will restate is because of ___VERY___ poor and expensive internet up around this neck of the woods, I always do a cd (now dvd) install. Long experience shows that for some reason debians net upgrade does ___________NOT___________ like this and after a handfull of net updates the package system gets itself into a real twist. I have found keeping the apt and dselect package list in sync reduces but does not eliminate this confusion. Note: You can fix this usually with dpkg, it takes days though. After 3 or 4 updates its necesary to reinstall the system, with apt-move this is not as difficult as it may appear. I always keep my own updated repository for all versions of debian I use, these only containing the packages I require. To reinstall one uses the method in the debian docs to copy a system, uisng this it only takes 30 minutes or so to reinstall. Remember I am no newbe, I have been using linux since kernel 0.96d (earlish 1993) and having been using debian (the best linux distro) since debians very begining. Lindsay

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Re: problems in a net upgrade to Debian 8.1
by zlinw＠mcmedia.com.au 19 Jun '15

19 Jun '15

Firstly many thanks the replies, although just being able to explain a problem can give one much better insites, its always nice to get others experience. Chris Samuel said, >I'm puzzled by what you say here, you seem to imply the sequence is: >1) Install 7.x from DVD >2) Upgrade to Debian testing >3) Downgrade from testing to 8.1 That is correct, the important point though is the delay, the last upgrade was well over 6 months ago and _____BEFORE______ doing any dist-upgrade I ALWAYS check what will happen using dselect as unlike aptitude it will display every change that will be done. IMPORTANT point here apt and dselect use different package lists both these need to be updated separately to keep the system in sync. Russell Coker said, >I've had ongoing problems with aptitude insisting on removing things I >want. I have checked this out and apt appears not te be aware of some packages. as previously stated in one of my cases "blender", apt wanted to remove it due to two missing dependencies, both packages were installed and dselect was aware of them apt was not. From my experience the more dist-upgrades are done the more debians package system gets itself into a twist. I have previosuly solved this by building my own mirror using apt-move and doing a netinstall from that. This itself has its own problems due to apt as mentioned previously not being aware of some packages, this can be fixed to some extent using "apt-move sync". I nearly always have to fix some small issues using either dselect or even the ultimate debian package management tool dpkg. I will do this this time once I am sure all packages needed are in my local mirror. A remaining problem here is that apt and dpkg/dselect usually have a different idea on what one has on the system, dselect always showing more packages are installed. Note: I THINK this is because dselect will track old packages still installed apt appears not to be able to do that. Never a dull moment when mucking around with computors ;-),:-(. Lindsay

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Re: Cups and printer conundrums
by Mark Trickett 18 Jun '15

18 Jun '15

Hello All, Some further testing, had access to a Windows Notebook, installed Canon LBP-5050N printer with USB then network connections and printed test page successfully each time, so know that cables and printer work, so back to permissions and the like with CUPS and the printer drivers, and possibly network protocols. The Windows test page does declare the data format as raw. I think there is a bit of software that will log file access. Then I can see what is called and invoked when I try to print. Then I can see what the permissions are, and a better idea of what to look for in the configurations. There were comments about Arch having a blog with useful comments. It specified commands for systemd components that I could not find under Debian. I would appreciate some pointers to stopping services, and restarting. There are files that if I am to edit, I need to stop CUPS for the duration, then restart to test. I also wish to file a form of bug report on CUPS in Debian, that I found it necessary to add myself to the appropriate groups to be able to add a printer. I would expect that the initial install where I set myself as administrator would do that. I can cope with the command line, when I have an idea of what is happening, but how about the Windows refugee who is refused access to installing any printer. We can help if they ask rather than going back to Microsoft, but they are all too likely to just reload Windows. Regards, Mark Trickett

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