- luv-talk - luv.asn.au

First climate change refugees
by Russell Coker 07 Apr '14

07 Apr '14

http://www.treehugger.com/corporate-responsibility/first-official-climate-c… -- Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2 with K-9 Mail.

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Re: [luv-talk] luv-talk Digest, Vol 31, Issue 1
by Tim Josling 05 Apr '14

05 Apr '14

> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 08:54:45 +1100 > From: "Peter Ross" > Subject: [luv-talk] Same day news - make a difference > At least I believe it is as much about as about refugees. It is about the society we want to live in. Signing a petition is the atheist equivalent of prayer: doing nothing but pretending you have done something - so you look good at no cost to yourself. Firing off moralistic emails is equally efficacious, in both respects. Alternatively, if you are serious: donate a significant percentage of your income to good causes, or do the hard thinking to actually come up with a better immigration policy - in detail, with analysis of the consequences (see below). Tim Policy > 1. What measures would you put in place to discourage people arriving by boat or plane, if any? > 2. What change would you make to the refugee quota? Would there still be a limit? > 3. Would the arrivals get work permits? How would they be supported if they did not get work? > 4. To what degree would you vet arrivals to see if a) they are 'genuine' refugees b) They are criminals, terrorists, or fanatics of one sort or another c) They have communicable illnesses? What level of appeals would be possible? Would we pay for legal aid throughout a long-drawn-out legal process? > 5. When people arrive would they be detained or monitored? Describe these arrangements. Would this depend on the answers to the previous question? > 6. What would you do with people who are not 'genuine' refugees, or who are otherwise undesirable? Would you deport or detain them? > 7. What do you do with people whose status is uncertain? People arrive without documentation, they may lie or exaggerate their predicament. You cannot exactly ask, say, the Iranian government "It is true that if this person were returned then you would persecute them?" and expect a useful answer. > 8, Would you limit where people could live and what work they could do? How would you enforce this? > 9. Would you devote any extra resources to projects such as solving world hunger (as suggested above) as part of the solution? Impact > 1. What do you think would be the effect of your policy on the number of unsolicited refugees arriving by aircraft, boat ie refugees arriving without a visa, if any? > 2. What do you think the impact of your policy on the total level of immigration to Australia, if any? > 3, What would be the effect of your policy on Australia's economy, unemployment levels, wages, crime and welfare dependency, if any. > 4. What do you think would be the effect of your policy in any other respect on the people who currently inhabit Australia, if any?

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Same day news - make a difference
by Peter Ross 04 Apr '14

04 Apr '14

.. below. Showing the difference people can make. If someone is interested to do something for this country: http://chn.ge/N89BCd At least I believe it is as much about as about refugees. It is about the society we want to live in. Regards Peter http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/04/03/one-million-syrian-refugees-l… The number of Syrians registered as refugees in Lebanon after fleeing war in their country has surpassed one million, the UN refugee agency said on Thursday. .. "The number of school-aged children is now over 400,000, eclipsing the number of Lebanese children in public schools. These schools have opened their doors to over 100,000 refugees, yet the ability to accept more is severely limited," it added. http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/04/03/png-australia-agree-resettle-… PNG and Australia have agreed all refugees will be resettled in PNG, weeks after Prime Minister Peter O'Neill said otherwise. "Ministers reiterated that all persons transferred to PNG under the RRA who are found to be refugees will be resettled in PNG. No one will be resettled in Australia," the pair said in a joint statement on Thursday. http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/04/04/morrison-talks-cambodia Immigration Minister Scott Morrison's visit to Phnom Penh is fuelling speculation that Australia is trying to strike a refugee resettlement deal with Cambodia.

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Fw: Re: Don't laugh - got any PATA drives?
by David E Payne 29 Mar '14

29 Mar '14

On Sat, 29/3/14, David E Payne <spyder.king(a)yahoo.com.au> wrote: > " My impression is that the only > discussion that is OFFICIALLY off-topic for LUV-talk is > that > which should be on one of the other LUV list-conferences. > (Quite a lot of it?) > Although I don't think a lot of Fwds of animated > LOL-Catz or rewrites of Cro-Magnon's jokes about > Neanderthals etc. would be widely welcomed! > (OK the <Polish|Irish|Biddleonian> jokes > probably > aren't THAT old!) " Also bottom posting, like this paragraph, used to offend fewer LUV-talk participants. (Sorry I forgot!) Dav(e/id/o/y) ETC.

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Don't laugh - got any PATA drives?
by Carl Turney 29 Mar '14

29 Mar '14

Hi All, Don't laugh, or suggest SATA: Anyone got some larger ( > 80GB ) Parallel ATA drives to dispose of? Failing that, know of any second-hand parts shops in Melbourne that may? If "yes"... guess it makes sense to respond off-list. If "you shouldn't post questions like these on this list"... guess responding on-list is best. Thanks, Carl Bayswater

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FW: Alright I am going to confess to speculating on the fate of MH-370 !
by Karl Terauds 20 Mar '14

20 Mar '14

luv-talk-bounces(a)lists.luv.asn.au; on behalf of; Rohan McLeod <rhn(a)jeack.com.au> From: Simon Bromley [mailto:bromleysimon@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 19 March, 2014 8:37 PM To: Greg Bromley; Karl Terauds Subject: RE: [luv-talk] Alright I am going to confess to speculating on the fate of MH-370 ! I can't write enough to de bunk this myth. This guy is clueless and has 'cut and pasted' a number of sayings from the aviation world. No mention of his credentials apart from looking like he's from Mens Health magazine. The transponder has an emergency code. That code is 7700 and you don't have to talk to anyone. It will alert all ATC authorities of the Mayday situation. The problem is it was turned off...... > Subject: Re: [luv-talk] Alright I am going to confess to speculating on the fate of MH-370 ! > From: bromleyco(a)bigpond.com > Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 17:13:29 +0800 > CC: bromleysimon(a)hotmail.com > To: karl(a)cosmicparrot.com.au > > I like that. Certainly a more tangible place to start. > > Greg > > > On 19/03/2014, at 1:57 PM, Karl Terauds wrote: > > > > > Alright I am going to confess to speculating on the fate of MH-370 !; > > everyone else seems to be and luv-talk is fairly quiet currently. > > > > Whilst the "currently sitting on mysterious runway, in {Western Australia, > > Kazakhstan, Antarctica,...); after 'hacking' of the fly-by-wire OS by { > > black-hats, CIA, grey-skinned-aliens,...} does appeal; currently the > > following seems quite good except for the evidence that the engines were > > sending pings, to the satellites for several hours ! > > > > https://plus.google.com/app/basic/stream/z13cv1gohsmbv5jmy221vrfyiz3vdhbop04 > > > > > > > > > > >

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Alright I am going to confess to speculating on the fate of MH-370 !
by Rohan McLeod 20 Mar '14

20 Mar '14

Alright I am going to confess to speculating on the fate of MH-370 !; everyone else seems to be and luv-talk is fairly quiet currently. Whilst the "currently sitting on mysterious runway, in {Western Australia, Kazakhstan, Antarctica,...); after 'hacking' of the fly-by-wire OS by { black-hats, CIA, grey-skinned-aliens,...} does appeal; currently the following seems quite goo;d except for the evidence that the engines were sending pings, to the satellites for several hours ! https://plus.google.com/app/basic/stream/z13cv1gohsmbv5jmy221vrfyiz3vdhbop04 regards Rohan McLeod

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Re: [luv-talk] Refugees (was Re: Vale Nelson Mandela)
by Petros 13 Mar '14

13 Mar '14

Quoting "Petros" <Petros.Listig(a)fdrive.com.au> > In case you agree with this treatment - take a rifle and shot your > refugee yourself. Of course you will not do that. Only few would. The problem is: When is this all "normal"? The "banality of evil" comes into play, as described in today's review of a movie about Hannah Arendt: http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/movies/hannah-arendt--review-air-thick-… "To Arendt, the significance of Eichmann was that he was a nobody, liberated from thinking about his actions by his sense of duty, a bureaucrat, not a monster, part of a brilliantly organised system. What he thought, the personal, did not matter, so long as he followed procedure." Since 2001 we are getting trained to believe it is okay to deal with refugees as we do now. Do you remember the conditioning? The evil refugees first who would throw their children overboard to come here? The queue jumpers? The people smugglers? The poor people drowning souls? The reasoning changed - the outcome stayed the same: How to punish refugees. Single out some people you have "to deal with" is a well-known method to rule. It is bullying. It attracts willing followers, injects fears, silences critics and distracts from other issues. The next group of people are already full in sight: the Greens. Nothing makes it easier to deal with them as labelling them extremist. Who comes next? Regards Peter

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Re: [luv-talk] Refugees (was Re: Vale Nelson Mandela)
by Petros 13 Mar '14

13 Mar '14

Quoting "Michael Scott" <luv(a)inoz.net> > On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 10:35 AM, Petros Petros.Listig(a)fdrive.com.au wrote: > >> Quoting "Michael Scott" < luv(a)inoz.net > >> >>> Calling her a blatant liar because she hasn't personally visited the >>> centres is a little bit over the top. >> >> No. When she is asked about the "inhumane conditions", Julie Bishop >> says in the BBC interview "I have seen it myself", and makes >> subsequently claims that are not true. > > In which case she's also stupid, but saying she's "seen it herself" > doesn't mean she's seen every centre, but I'll take your word for > her referring to the same things in both cases. http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/julie-bishop-defen… "Well I've visited there," Ms Bishop told the interviewer. "And I'm satisfied that . . . people are treated appropriately, with dignity." > What "subsequent claims" did she make that you know to be untrue? http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/befuddled-julie-bi… First came the assertion that the claims of asylum seekers ''are processed in third countries, and then we look for resettlement in other countries, including in Australia - and we've done this before and it worked''. Advertisement If this were the case, some of the concerns of human rights agencies would be allayed, but the message to boat arrivals is that they will never be resettled in Australia. According to Immigration Minister Scott Morrison, the only resettlement option for those on Manus Island whose refugee claims are recognised is resettlement in Papua New Guinea, even though this is a matter of conjecture in PNG. The same, it appears, goes for those on Nauru. Then came, ''people are clearly having their applications for asylum processed there [on Manus and Nauru] and if they are found not to be genuine asylum seekers, they are returned [home]''. The problem here is that no determinations on refugee status have been made - aside from one positive decision on Nauru - and the UN refugee agency has serious doubts about the capacity of either country to make determinations and give adequate protection to those who have fled persecution. Finally came a defence of the conditions in the camps, with the minister asserting that the asylum seekers are treated with dignity and respect. ''Their children go to school, they have community centres … the standard of accommodation and the standard of support they receive, in many instances, is better than that received by the people of Papua New Guinea''. Not so, says Sarah Hanson-Young, who has been to Manus and Nauru, where a combined 2400 asylum seekers are being detained, and Christmas Island, where another 1700 are being held. ''On Christmas Island, none of the children are going to school, and on Nauru, the situation is even worse,'' says the Greens' immigration spokesperson. ''In the middle of the Nauru compound, there is a tent where they run activities for the children for two hours a day, and that's it. There is no proper education and no dedicated learning space, let alone 'schooling'.'' When Ms Bishop was asked about the discrepancies, she said she was referring to the past practice of resettling in third countries and Australia. She then referred other questions to Mr Morrison. --- Well, she was not asked about the past, wasn't she? What she is doing in London is trying to cover up inexcusable inhumanity by blatant lying. In case you agree with this treatment - take a rifle and shot your refugee yourself. Otherwise pressure your government. Take their word and make the picture of human treatment reality: processing, resettlement, schooling etc. Thanks Peter

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Re: [luv-talk] Refugees (was Re: Vale Nelson Mandela)
by Petros 13 Mar '14

13 Mar '14

Quoting "Michael Scott" <luv(a)inoz.net> > Calling her a blatant liar because she hasn't personally visited the > centres is a little bit over the top. No. When she is asked about the "inhumane conditions", Julie Bishop says in the BBC interview "I have seen it myself", and makes subsequently claims that are not true. Regards Peter

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