- luv-talk - luv.asn.au

Re: [luv-talk] Libs/Labs and other politics, statistics and myths
by Peter Ross 08 Nov '14

08 Nov '14

From: "Peter Ross" <Petros.Listig(a)fdrive.com.au> > The "traditional churches" seem to be quite relaxed, it seems. A friends' > marriage which was slightly hampered by rules of the Anglican heritage was > finally married in a Uniting Church, with the blessings of an Anglican > priest as part of the ceremony. "hampered by rules of the Anglican CHURCH" I wanted to say. Forgot rule no.1: Do not turn on a computer if you did not have a coffee yet. Regards Peter

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Re: [luv-talk] Libs/Labs and other politics, statistics and myths
by Peter Ross 08 Nov '14

08 Nov '14

From: "Lev Lafayette" <lev(a)levlafayette.com> > On Sat, November 8, 2014 8:06 am, Michael Scott wrote: >> Jews are of Israeli heritage, whether of the Jewish faith or not. > > What? Can you explain to me the ethnic Israeli heritage of the Ugandan > Jews? > > You know, I think DNA studies might disagree with your assertion. You are opening a can of worms here, I think. AFAIK religious texts refer to the twelve tribes of Israel and the current state of Israel, according to its own constitution a Jewish state, is claiming his current location and right to exist based on these texts. The Nazis did not invent the theory of a "Jewish race" but they used it to persecute million of German citizens (and later in occupied countries) of perceived "Jewish heritage" (the "Aryan pass" to show your heritage and "value" as a German citizen is a joke - unfortunately a deadly serious one for many) Without this your friend may feel "Jewish" as I feel "Lutheran": That's the religion of my ancestors but I am not a practising Christian. I do not say I am "Lutheran". AFAIK there are no "Christian tribes". This seems to be quite undisputed, I think. But that all goes far beyond the original topic.. and I am not the suppository of all wisdom, to quote my Dear Leader. BTW: for years I was living here in Australia with a partner who is the mother of our daughter. We were not married but it mattered much less than in Germany. The "de facto relationship" has a quite solid legal standing here. Trent's word exists, it is civil union. I do not know whether it is necessary to have a "marriage" or a "civil union" will do. Just make sure that the law does not discriminate against them. Overall, Australians appear quite pragmatic, and that may do, I guess. Interestingly, the hardest resistance seems to come from churches with strong American influences. E.g. the Life Church which is founded by an American. The "traditional churches" seem to be quite relaxed, it seems. A friends' marriage which was slightly hampered by rules of the Anglican heritage was finally married in a Uniting Church, with the blessings of an Anglican priest as part of the ceremony. Regards Peter

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Re: [luv-talk] Libs/Labs and other politics, statistics and myths
by Peter Ross 07 Nov '14

07 Nov '14

Hi Michael, From: "Michael Scott" <luv(a)inoz.net> > I said I didn't like the Liberal government's policies, yet you use the > East-West link against me? I don't want to use anything "against you". Sorry. > The government has a large debt. And a T-shirt is a Norwegian jumper. http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/economics/government-debt_gov-debt-table-en OECD (developed countries) average 2013: 109.5% Australia: 33.1% Second lowest world-wide behind Luxembourg. Regards Peter

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Re: [luv-talk] Libs/Labs and other politics, statistics and myths
by Peter Ross 07 Nov '14

07 Nov '14

On Thu, 6 Nov 2014, Michael Scott < luv(a)inoz.net > wrote: > I'd vote Green if their policies only related to their green matters. > Unfortunately they don't. They are able to come up with unfunded policies > which they never have to justify in practice. > > I'd vote Labor if they weren't backed by corrupt unions (and I'm not > saying all unions are corrupt). > > I'd vote Liberal if they weren't backed by corrupt big business (and I'm > not saying all big business is corrupt). I would vote for a party which plans are working in my interest;-) Which are not necessarily "mine" only. Sometimes a "broad view" about society values can be more important for me than just to look after my wallet. BTW: To a certain extend you may be right about the "unfunded ideas" of the Greens. Not being in power (and not close to it) gives them more freedom to dream. "Reality" will interfere with them early enough - as it shows when they have the balance of power. Some dreams come true, some don't. The Victorian standards of pollies seem to be very low at the moment. E.g. handing over parts of a National Park silently to a developer 2 days before going in caretaker mode or signing contracts weeks before an election to promise hundred million dollars of taxpayers' money (our money) to a consortium if his successors decide not to clear the way for a project which is still before the courts.. I would like to see Denis Naphtine in jail instead of in government, to be honest. BTW: I am pretty sure some of it would not work in Germany. These kind of contracts are "sittenwidrig" there (http://www.dict.cc/german-english/sittenwidrig.html: unethical, improper..) and can be nullified in court. Has Australia similar lows to invalidate clearly improper contracts? Anyway, I cannot believe that Australians ignore such behaviour. Naphtine should be unelectable. > Is that far enough Left for you, Russell? Stay calm and carry on;-) Greetings Peter

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The recession we haven't YET had [was Re: Action Needed: What we can do to stop the data retention bill in the next few days]
by Michael Scott 06 Nov '14

06 Nov '14

Hi Lev, I understand the definition of a recession. I simply said it hasn't necessarily yet been avoided. We may still yet fall into recession as a direct result of the GFC. We avoided recession immediately resulting from the GFC, but the US government is still "printing money" to keep their market afloat. Interest rates are being deliberately kept low so the government can afford its debt. It won't take too much vibration in the US for confidence to go through the floor again. Michael On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 12:40 PM, Lev Lafayette <lev(a)levlafayette.com> wrote: > > On Thu, November 6, 2014 12:25 pm, Michael Scott wrote: > > The coalition left the Labor government in a position in which it could > > avoid a recession. The recession hasn't yet been avoided. > > A recession is usually defined as two consecutive quarters of negative > real GDP growth. Australia was one of the very few countries in the world, > and I believe the only one in the OECD, that did not suffer a recession. > This is generally attributable to our financial stability and fiscal > stimulus, despite being an export orientated economy. > > > http://www.treasury.gov.au/PublicationsAndMedia/Publications/2011/Economic-… > > > -- > Lev Lafayette, BA (Hons), GradCertTerAdEd (Murdoch), GradCertPM, MBA (Tech > Mngmnt) (Chifley) > mobile: 0432 255 208 > RFC 1855 Netiquette Guidelines > http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt > > _______________________________________________ > luv-talk mailing list > luv-talk(a)luv.asn.au > http://lists.luv.asn.au/listinfo/luv-talk >

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Re: [luv-talk] Action Needed: What we can do to stop the data retention bill in the next few days
by Peter Ross 06 Nov '14

06 Nov '14

From: "Lev Lafayette" <lev(a)levlafayette.com> > > On Wed, November 5, 2014 4:40 pm, Aryan Ameri wrote: >> So I went to three Victorian Labor Senators' offices and my local MP's >> office today to talk about data retention. > ... >> >> Even if Labor ends up supporting the bill, at least my conscience is >> clear that I did something. In years to come, at least I can say, I >> tried. > > Good on you Aryan. That's the sort of involved citizenship we need to see > more of. Because that is what makes a difference. For a few years the name Melissa Parke "pops up" if it comes to matters like treatment of refugees and recently privacy, e.g. http://www.melissaparke.com.au/speeches/614-restricting-freedom-privacy-cou… She seems to be one of the few Labor members in parliament which are not completely overwhelmed by fear to say "unpopular" words and let her conscience speak. Politicians like her good do with a bit of public support, I think. In my eyes Labor is a disaster if it comes to explain what matters. That makes them less electable than a party which would know and explain why it supports certain matters. Hoping that privacy issues or refugee issues "go away" does not help. It is a strategy worth of an ostrich. The current government would be called right extremists in Germany. It is plainly shocking how far Brandis, Morrison, Pyke etc. pushed the Liberals to the right. The word Liberal is completely misleading. This word would disappear from the political landscape of Australia if parties had to declare the ingredients on the label. Regards Peter

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Re: [luv-talk] Action Needed: What we can do to stop the data retention bill in the next few days
by Peter Ross 06 Nov '14

06 Nov '14

From: "Davor Balder" <dbalder(a)ozemail.com.au> > I believe there are some relatively small political forces that would be > greatly affected by this issue (the Pirate Party?). There could be other > similar groups. The Pirate Party has unfortunate name, in my opinion. The Greens, amongst others? http://scott-ludlam.greensmps.org.au/category/issues-tags/data-retention "The Australian Greens, the Liberal Democratic Party and Senator Nick Xenophon have teamed up to hold an event in Parliament House during the next Senate sitting week to step up the campaign against the Government’s proposed mandatory data retention legislation." Maybe, in general, people in Australia should be more inclined to listen to arguments than "Liberals are good for the economy", "Greens are extremists" and make some effort to figure out what they really get and vote for. It's on the same level than "my" consultants inconsulting me that Microsoft is standard and Oracle a tiny fringe company nobody bothers to work with. And Linux is a "strange thing" anyway. Just avoid it. Regards Peter

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Re: [luv-talk] Action Needed: What we can do to stop the data retention bill in the next few days
by Peter Ross 06 Nov '14

06 Nov '14

From: "Michael Scott" <luv(a)inoz.net> > I don't like Dennis Napthine and I don't like the policies of the current > Victorian government, but the Labor governments have been terrible. Their > policies are, on the surface, "wonderful", but are generally unfunded, > except by deficit budgets, funded by increasing debt. Of course it is much better management if Liberals: - Get elected with the promise to support the Metro Rail Tunnel - Drops it after the Minister for Racing becomes the Premier (the one that not even bothers to declare his investment in horses properly) - Gets the East West Link "planed" so all "consultations" are done before the plans are finalized - Cannort show us good reasons, business plan deliberately hidden, "second river crossing" advertised (where please?) and "27 minutes time savings' (when travel at peak times takes 21 minutes now) - Runs into legal hurdles because of the shoddy planning - Signs a billion dollars contract weeks before the election promising the consortium hundred millions of "refund" if the process cannot be cleared in court (and the opposition may cancel this bull-shit project after a likely election win) - "Rediscovers" the Metro Rail Tunnel - Ignores five years of planning and changes the routes completely because something needs to be advertised (there is an election coming!) - Has to find out that it collides with billion dollar investments in development of high risers http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/fishermans-bend-rail-rerouting-runs-into-… That's management! In the mean time Baillieu and Naphtine killed all investment in wind and solar energy. This contributes to the rise in unemployment with the highest rate (13% I think) in Naphtine's electorate. Amongst others there was a company building rotors for wind turbines that closed down. I call that "good way of running an economy"! I don't know whether Liberals were any good in history but this lot is a corrupt and greedy bunch of village idiots. The only qualification: The work for the rich. Last time I checked it was a Labor government which helped Australia to avoid a recesssion during the Global Financial Crisis. The only developed country world wide which avoided this. Just all sing after Rupert Murdoch and The Hun: Liberals are goods for the economy Liberals are good for the economy Liberals are good .. for me! Hallelujah! Peter

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Action Needed: What we can do to stop the data retention bill in the next few days
by Aryan Ameri 05 Nov '14

05 Nov '14

So I went to three Victorian Labor Senators' offices and my local MP's office today to talk about data retention. I decided that instead of just ranting online, I should do something about it, however insignificant it might be in the long run. So I drafted a nice one-page letter where I summarily talked about the problems I see with the bill that's been introduced to Parliament: the privacy and civil rights aspect, the data security and potential breach, the lack of definition of metadata in the bill and potential for scope creep, and the cost of the scheme. Writing emails and signing online petitions doesn't do anything. Politicians get lots of them and they get ignored all the time. They are however not used to having someone call them on the phone, or better yet, having someone enter their offices. It was very clear to me that the staff at these offices are not used to having people coming into their office to talk about issues. They were all initially taken aback, but once they got over their surprise and they realised that I was there to talk about a legitimate issue, their demeanor changed and they treated me very politely and respectfully. I might say a couple of them even enjoyed talking to another voter about a real policy issue. In Senator Kim Carr and Senator Conroy's offices, I briefly talked about the issue with a staff member and handed my letter to them. In Senator Gavin Marshall's office I got to sit down and had a very interesting and insightful chat with a political advisor. He told me that the ALP hasn't yet made a stance on the issue, but in real politics, it's going to be very hard to make the argument against these "national security" bills. I can more than understand that argument, but the point that I made was that there are those of us who care about this issue, and even though we might not be as loud as the Herald Sun, we do exist and we vote. Likewise at my local MP Tim Watts' office I sat down with a staff member who took the time to listen to me and took notes. In every case, I can say that being there in person made a huge difference. It made them realise that there are actual people with a name and a face out there who care about this issue. The Labor party currently doesn't have a position on the bill yet. It will come up in their caucus soon and they will vote on it. Right now, the Greens, the Liberal Democrat senator and Nick Xenophon have said that they will vote against the bill. If Labor votes against it, there is a real possibility of stopping this in the Senate. I am going to also call the offices of Jason Clare (Shadow Communications Minister) and Mark Dreyfus (Shadow A.G) These are the key people in the ALP who can sway the caucus one way or the other. I urge you, if you care about this, don't just sit and rant online and then complain about how politicians don't represent you. Find the address or phone number of your local member, and especially the Labor senators from your state, and call them, or go to their office. Have a brief summary of your arguments to hand them once you've spoken with someone. It's not that difficult, and it very well can make a difference. Even if Labor ends up supporting the bill, at least my conscience is clear that I did something. In years to come, at least I can say, I tried.

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(no subject)
by David E Payne 29 Oct '14

29 Oct '14

>From 7pm tonight, as well as their AGM SAGEau Victoria will also be discussing "Meta-Data, Surveillance, SysAdmins and the SAGE-AU Code of Ethics" www.meetup.com/SAGE-AU-VIC/events/214711562/ Dav* -

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