25 Jun
2018
25 Jun
'18
9:33 p.m.
I'm hoping someone here may have some insight to cabling
responsibilities under the NBN and also my expected rights under the
Customer Service Guarantee (CSG).
I was talking to Internode today about transitioning to the NBN and had
a few surprises:
1. I will now be responsible for the cabling from my wall socket to some
as yet undefined location in the street (sales guy couldn't tell me
where that was).
2. I have to waive my rights to the CSG.
I have had two occasions in the last year when I've had to call Telstra
to come and fix my line issues (which they did at no cost to me). What
can I expect under the NBN?
--
Tom Robinson
19 Thomas Road Mobile: +61 4 3268 7026
Healesville, VIC 3777 Home: +61 3 5962 4543
Australia GPG Key: 8A4CB7A7
CONFIDENTIALITY: Copyright (C). This message with any appended or
attached material is intended for addressees only and may not be
copied or forwarded to or used by other parties without permission.
26 Jun
26 Jun
12:03 a.m.
Tom Robinson via luv-main wrote:
I'm hoping someone here may have some insight to
cabling
responsibilities under the NBN and also my expected rights under the
Customer Service Guarantee (CSG).
I was talking to Internode today about transitioning to the NBN and had
a few surprises:
1. I will now be responsible for the cabling from my wall socket to some
as yet undefined location in the street (sales guy couldn't tell me
where that was).
2. I have to waive my rights to the CSG.
I have had two occasions in the last year when I've had to call Telstra
to come and fix my line issues (which they did at no cost to me). What
can I expect under the NBN?
Can you be a little more explicit as to whether it is fibre to the node
(the street box only),
or fibre to the house ? Anyway it is a most unusual situation for the
householder to complete,
the connection from the node to the house; NBN paid Telstra much money;
so they could save themselves that expense and use Telstra's shaggy
old wires
/start rant
and turn a promising optical fibre-network;
into a mediocre piece of crap.....gees thanks Malcom !
end rant /
Normally the NBN will not deal directly with customers,
all the support is expected to occur through the relevant ISP.
Will Internode be your ISP when you connect via the NBN ?
regards Rohan McLeod
12:20 a.m.
On 26/06/18 00:03, Rohan McLeod wrote:
Tom Robinson via luv-main wrote:
My apologies. We're getting FTTN with VDSL.
The Internode sales guy insisted that I would have to hire my own
cabling contractor should there be any issues with cabling between my
house and the Node. I tried to explain to him that currently Telstra
maintain the wires all the way to the socket on the wall but he kept
saying that they wouldn't do that. Well, it's not quite true as some of
the wires are now actually NBN wires but when the Telstra Tech's have
been here before to fix issues and they test all the bits between the
socket on the wall down to the node and then to the exchange.
<rant id=tom>This whole experience has just confirmed my all my
misgivings for the current rollout and that the current NBN scheme is a
huge smelly pile of donkey donuts</rant>
Yes, Internode may be my choice for ISP. They are my current ADSL provider.
--
Tom Robinson
19 Thomas Road Mobile: +61 4 3268 7026
Healesville, VIC 3777 Home: +61 3 5962 4543
Australia GPG Key: 8A4CB7A7
CONFIDENTIALITY: Copyright (C). This message with any appended or
attached material is intended for addressees only and may not be
copied or forwarded to or used by other parties without permission.
I'm hoping someone here may have some insight
to cabling
responsibilities under the NBN and also my expected rights under the
Customer Service Guarantee (CSG).
I was talking to Internode today about transitioning to the NBN and had
a few surprises:
1. I will now be responsible for the cabling from my wall socket to some
as yet undefined location in the street (sales guy couldn't tell me
where that was).
2. I have to waive my rights to the CSG.
I have had two occasions in the last year when I've had to call Telstra
to come and fix my line issues (which they did at no cost to me). What
can I expect under the NBN?
Can you be a little more explicit as to whether it is fibre to the node
(the street box only),
or fibre to the house ? Anyway it is a most unusual situation for the
householder to complete,
the connection from the node to the house; NBN paid Telstra much money;
so they could save themselves that expense and use Telstra's shaggy old
wires
/start rant
and turn a promising optical fibre-network;
into a mediocre piece of crap.....gees thanks Malcom !
end rant /
Normally the NBN will not deal directly with customers,
all the support is expected to occur through the relevant ISP.
Will Internode be your ISP when you connect via the NBN ?
12:48 a.m.
On 26/06/18 00:20, Tom Robinson via luv-main wrote:
With FTTN, you will have a copper pair to your home or the MDF (if you
have an MDF -- essentially a termination point other than a phone socket).
Your copper line will pass the NBN data to the VDSL modem. The NBN via
the ISP will be responsible for EVERYTHING up to that first socket; if
they supply you with the VDSL modem, then they are responsible for that
as well (at least for an acceptable duration as can be considered a
reasonable lifetime according to the ACCC's position on acceptable
consumer warranty (other than that which the supplier might claim).
On 26/06/18 00:03, Rohan McLeod wrote:
> /start rant
> and turn a promising optical fibre-network;
> into a mediocre piece of crap.....gees thanks Malcom !
> end rant /
Not a truer conclusion.
Normally the
NBN will not deal directly with customers,
all the support is expected to occur through the relevant ISP.
Will Internode be your ISP when you connect via the NBN ?
My apologies. We're getting FTTN with VDSL.
The Internode sales guy insisted that I would have to hire my own
cabling contractor should there be any issues with cabling between my
house and the Node. I tried to explain to him that currently Telstra
maintain the wires all the way to the socket on the wall but he kept
saying that they wouldn't do that. Well, it's not quite true as some of
the wires are now actually NBN wires but when the Telstra Tech's have
been here before to fix issues and they test all the bits between the
socket on the wall down to the node and then to the exchange. <rant id=tom>This whole experience has just
confirmed my all my
misgivings for the current rollout and that the current NBN scheme is a
huge smelly pile of donkey donuts</rant>
I have found that almost anything is better than ADSL for many -- my old
ADSL was using copper lines at around the limit and I was lucky to get
ADSL at all, it was much less reliable than my newer HFC setup.
However, the full FTTP should be much better again -- FTTN falls below
HFC (in my view), but well ahead of ADSL normally.
Better than HFC is FTTC which some lucky HFC /type/ customers will get
in place of HFC.
Fixed wireless sits somewhere between HFC and FTTN in my view; but the
worst NBN option being satellite is a much less good option and only
just good as a replacement if no other option is viable.
Yes, Internode may be my choice for ISP. They are my
current ADSL provider.
Internode is not what they previously were, they are part of the iiBorg
set of companies; it may be better than some other options, but it's not
what it has, in the past, been known for.
My biggest rant is as follows:
"Originally the plan was for a government INVESTMENT of $26.9 billion;
with monies coming back as a return on investment upon eventual sale of
the network. Now we have the real white elephant version at a cost of
$60+ billion and there won't be many suiters willing to buy it unless
they can pick it up for a song. Hence, we'll lose a very significant
amount (if not every cent), that is spent on this far inferior version
that is Turncoat's mess."
Kind Regards
AndrewM
1:05 a.m.
Oh and waiving the CSG -- that normally refers to waiving the rights to
an expedient repair of the copper phone line if it becomes in-operable
for whatever reason.
In the past, Telstra (without any CSG waiver) will be required to repair
the phone line more promptly if there are any faults.
In any case, no provider wants your phone line to be in-operable for any
extended period of time if for any time at all as it is what they need
to work to provide you with their broadband product.
So, if there is a line fault, it should still get fixed in a reasonably
fast time frame, but keep in mind that there are multiple parties
involved. Your ISP at the very least, needs to communicate with NBN and
NBN in turn may use any contractor, but more likely it will be a Telstra
tech. Telstra, in this situation, are less concerned about fixing your
line as quickly as they would for their own bonafide customers, but that
shouldn't be the case, it /may/ not be an issue at all, but if there are
issues, then it certainly is possible that any Telstra tech involved in
fixing your line might care less about fixing your line quickly.
We hope that, in fact, ALL techs will work in a timely and co-operative
manner to get you back to a working service.
In the past, (dark early days of ADSL), I've had Telstra techs visit to
"fix" a broken phone line, claim that nothing was at fault, but
magically the line works fine after their visit. It seemed to me that
they were always very reluctant to admit any fault with a line; much
like with insurance, you are never meant to admit fault...
Cheers
A
8:39 a.m.
On 26/06/18 00:48, Andrew McGlashan via luv-main wrote:
On 26/06/18 00:20, Tom Robinson via luv-main wrote:
With FTTN, you will have a copper pair to your home or the MDF (if you
have an MDF -- essentially a termination point other than a phone socket).
Still not sure where my Network Boundary Point is. I found this googling last night:
https://www.internode.on.net/pdf/legal/cra/internode-nbn-fibre-service-desc…
On page two:
Network Boundary Point means the point where the Service is provided to, which is;
(a) in relation to FTTP, HFC or Fixed Wireless: the Ethernet port on the NBNCo NTD at your
Premises;
(b) in relation to FTTN or FTTB: the first accessible point in your Premises at which Your
Equipment
can be terminated and connected to a copper pair for the transmission of an NBN FTTB or
FTTN
Service. For MDUs, this is your side of the main distribution frame.
(c) in relation to FTTC: the first accessible point in your Premises at which an NBNCo NCD
can be
terminated and connected to a copper pair for the transmission of an NBN FTTC Service. For
MDUs,
this is your side of the main distribution frame.
Not even sure if this document even applies to my situation but it would be reasonable to
assume so.
My understanding would be that Internode would take care of the line up to "the first
accessible
point in your Premises at which Your Equipment can be terminated and connected to a copper
pair for
the transmission of an NBN FTTB or FTTN Service."
I still don't know where the MDF/Network Boundary Point is on my house. Truth be told,
I can
probably find it, but not being a Cable Tech., and never have had to be concerned by it
until now, I
have no idea! And when I find it, there'd be a certain amount of guess work from my
part as it comes
down to "that's where I 'think' it is"...
On 26/06/18 00:03, Rohan McLeod wrote:
> /start rant
> and turn a promising optical fibre-network;
> into a mediocre piece of crap.....gees thanks Malcom !
> end rant /
Not a truer conclusion.
Normally
the NBN will not deal directly with customers,
all the support is expected to occur through the relevant ISP.
Will Internode be your ISP when you connect via the NBN ?
My apologies. We're getting FTTN with VDSL.
The Internode sales guy insisted that I would have to hire my own
cabling contractor should there be any issues with cabling between my
house and the Node. I tried to explain to him that currently Telstra
maintain the wires all the way to the socket on the wall but he kept
saying that they wouldn't do that. Well, it's not quite true as some of
the wires are now actually NBN wires but when the Telstra Tech's have
been here before to fix issues and they test all the bits between the
socket on the wall down to the node and then to the exchange.
Your copper line will pass the NBN data to the VDSL modem. The NBN via
the ISP will be responsible for EVERYTHING up to that first socket; if
they supply you with the VDSL modem, then they are responsible for that
as well (at least for an acceptable duration as can be considered a
reasonable lifetime according to the ACCC's position on acceptable
consumer warranty (other than that which the supplier might claim).
Being in a more rural location I have had good ADSL speeds. Typically I get 18Mbps. And I
don't do
much uploading.
<rant id=tom>This whole experience has just
confirmed my all my
misgivings for the current rollout and that the current NBN scheme is a
huge smelly pile of donkey donuts</rant>
I have found that almost anything is better than ADSL for many -- my old
ADSL was using copper lines at around the limit and I was lucky to get
ADSL at all, it was much less reliable than my newer HFC setup.
However, the full FTTP should be much better again -- FTTN falls below
HFC (in my view), but well ahead of ADSL normally.
Better than HFC is FTTC which some lucky HFC /type/ customers will get
in place of HFC.
Fixed wireless sits somewhere between HFC and FTTN in my view; but the
worst NBN option being satellite is a much less good option and only
just good as a replacement if no other option is viable.
Internode support has been reasonable over the years but I have noticed a certain
'Borginess' more
recently.
Yes, Internode may be my choice for ISP. They are
my current ADSL provider.
Internode is not what they previously were, they are part of the iiBorg
set of companies; it may be better than some other options, but it's not
what it has, in the past, been known for.
My biggest rant is as follows:
"Originally the plan was for a government INVESTMENT of $26.9 billion;
with monies coming back as a return on investment upon eventual sale of
the network. Now we have the real white elephant version at a cost of
$60+ billion and there won't be many suiters willing to buy it unless
they can pick it up for a song. Hence, we'll lose a very significant
amount (if not every cent), that is spent on this far inferior version
that is Turncoat's mess."
Agreed. Hey, how do you really screw up a major national network upgrade? Just
politicise it and
kick it around until the cost balloons to three times as much as originally planned and
provides a
weaker technical solution so that by the end of the rollout we have an inferior service
and, as a
country, we are still behind the rest of the world.
--
Tom Robinson
19 Thomas Road Mobile: +61 4 3268 7026
Healesville, VIC 3777 Home: +61 3 5962 4543
Australia GPG Key: 8A4CB7A7
CONFIDENTIALITY: Copyright (C). This message with any appended or
attached material is intended for addressees only and may not be
copied or forwarded to or used by other parties without permission.
11:55 a.m.
On 26/06/18 00:20, Tom Robinson via luv-main wrote:
The Internode sales guy insisted that I would have to
hire my own
cabling contractor should there be any issues with cabling between my
house and the Node. I tried to explain to him that currently Telstra
maintain the wires all the way to the socket on the wall but he kept
saying that they wouldn't do that. Well, it's not quite true as some of
the wires are now actually NBN wires but when the Telstra Tech's have
been here before to fix issues and they test all the bits between the
socket on the wall down to the node and then to the exchange.
I may have confused 'kindness' for 'service' above. I think the Telstra
Tech. I've been dealing with
has just 'lent a hand' and fixed my socket on the wall. I'm beginning to think
that the Network
Boundary Point has always been a termination either somewhere on the outside of the house
or on the
yard/street boundary somewhere.
--
Tom Robinson
19 Thomas Road Mobile: +61 4 3268 7026
Healesville, VIC 3777 Home: +61 3 5962 4543
Australia GPG Key: 8A4CB7A7
CONFIDENTIALITY: Copyright (C). This message with any appended or
attached material is intended for addressees only and may not be
copied or forwarded to or used by other parties without permission.
9 Jul
9 Jul
1:16 a.m.
Tom Robinson via luv-main <luv-main(a)luv.asn.au> wrote:
I may have confused 'kindness' for
'service' above. I think the Telstra Tech. I've been dealing with
has just 'lent a hand' and fixed my socket on the wall. I'm beginning to
think that the Network
Boundary Point has always been a termination either somewhere on the outside of the house
or on the
yard/street boundary somewhere.
I don't know whether this has changed, but when I last read about it, the
network termination point was defined as the first socket (i.e., to which
customer equipment can be connected).
When a Telstra Network Termination Device was installed at my family's home in
Melbourne, with ADSL filtering included, it was a box outside the house.
However, there was a "test socket" inside the box, so, technically, the
network boundary point still was the first socket.
9:13 a.m.
We're on NBN via HFC through Internode (aka TPG). Despite the house
already having two cable connections (ex Telstra & Optus), Telstra,
providing contracting services for NBN, installed a new connection into our
study (as specified by me). This included a new cable from the pole (they
removed the old Telstra cable), the termination box on the exterior wall, a
new internal socket adjacent to the skirting board and the Aris 8200 cable
modem.
Therefore I suppose that the first socket I can connect to is the RJ45 on
the cable modem. To which Internode (no doubt forced by TPG) supplied that
god awful Huawei HG659 wireless modem/router. It's required because it's
internally configured to carry the NBN phone (voip) service and despite
some hackery of said device, I was unable to get my ASUS router/modem to
maintain a stable voip connection. In the end I created a DMZ on the HG659
and put my ASUS router into it such the HG659 is only doing the initial
service connection and carrying the voice service.
BTW when we first signed up I too had to waive the CSG. They explained
that the CSG was based on old physically connected POTS services. This
would appear to be corroborated by ACMA. See https://www.acma.gov.au
/Citizen/Phones/Landlines/Phone-connection-and-repair/customer-service-guarantee-for-phone-users-
faqs
The same page indicates that NBN may not be covered as it's an "Internet
service".
On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 at 01:16, Jason White via luv-main <luv-main(a)luv.asn.au>
wrote:
Tom Robinson via luv-main <luv-main(a)luv.asn.au>
wrote:
--
Colin Fee
tfeccles(a)gmail.com
I may have confused 'kindness' for
'service' above. I think the Telstra
Tech. I've been dealing with
has just 'lent a hand' and fixed my
socket on the wall. I'm beginning to
think that the Network
Boundary Point has always been a termination
either somewhere on the
outside of the house or on the
yard/street boundary somewhere.
I don't know whether this has changed, but when I last read about it, the
network termination point was defined as the first socket (i.e., to which
customer equipment can be connected).
When a Telstra Network Termination Device was installed at my family's
home in
Melbourne, with ADSL filtering included, it was a box outside the house.
However, there was a "test socket" inside the box, so, technically, the
network boundary point still was the first socket.
_______________________________________________
luv-main mailing list
luv-main(a)luv.asn.au
https://lists.luv.asn.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/luv-main
11:20 a.m.
On 9/07/2018 9:13 AM, Colin Fee via luv-main wrote:
BTW when we first signed up I too had to waive the
CSG. They
explained that the CSG was based on old physically connected POTS
services. This would appear to be corroborated by ACMA. See
https://www.acma.gov.au/Citizen/Phones/Landlines/Phone-connection-and-repai…
FWIW, I had a long-running drama with Telstra regarding NBN over HFC
access early last year. The outcome was their paying me in excess of
$1,000 in CSG reimbursement. So the CSG does appear to apply to any
voice (phone) service /including VoIP/.
BTW I strongly recommend Aussie Broadband as a RSP. ABB are willing to
listen, Australian, and knowledgable. They were very patient whilst I
spent time debugging slower-than-expected speeds that at first looked
like bandwidth shaping at their end but turned out to be an old custom
firewall setting hiding in my second-hand Snapgear router.
George
11 Jul
11 Jul
2:19 p.m.
On 26/06/18 11:55, Tom Robinson via luv-main wrote:
On 26/06/18 00:20, Tom Robinson via luv-main wrote:
A quick update. I've gone with ABB. They are great to deal with. I've also located
the Network
Boundary Point on my barge boards. I'm yet to re-cable my internal wiring to minimise
the copper and
maximise the speed. Will get connected next Tuesday but my official termination date is
this Friday.
It remains to be seen if I have to hotspot over 3G until then. With luck the termination
will be
delayed until the NBN is connected.
--
Tom Robinson
19 Thomas Road Mobile: +61 4 3268 7026
Healesville, VIC 3777 Home: +61 3 5962 4543
Australia GPG Key: 8A4CB7A7
CONFIDENTIALITY: Copyright (C). This message with any appended or
attached material is intended for addressees only and may not be
copied or forwarded to or used by other parties without permission.
The Internode sales guy insisted that I would
have to hire my own
cabling contractor should there be any issues with cabling between my
house and the Node. I tried to explain to him that currently Telstra
maintain the wires all the way to the socket on the wall but he kept
saying that they wouldn't do that. Well, it's not quite true as some of
the wires are now actually NBN wires but when the Telstra Tech's have
been here before to fix issues and they test all the bits between the
socket on the wall down to the node and then to the exchange.
I may have confused 'kindness' for 'service' above. I think the Telstra
Tech. I've been dealing with
has just 'lent a hand' and fixed my socket on the wall. I'm beginning to
think that the Network
Boundary Point has always been a termination either somewhere on the outside of the house
or on the
yard/street boundary somewhere.
27 Jun
27 Jun
9:07 a.m.
Perhaps I can add my recent experience. I have had problems with NBN
since I signed up in January and have finally had resolution last week.
In choosing my ISP I decided that one criteria must be that they provide
local telephone support and that my bandwidth should remain as stable as
possible through the peak usage times. From a number of providers I
chose Ausiebroadband which satisfied both these requirements and have
been great.
My problems began immediately after the change from ADSL - line
dropouts, and although speeds were better that ADSL they were nowhere
near what I expected on a 50/20 plan. I put up with it for a while but
after many internet and phone call dropouts (voip) I decided to keep a
record of speeds and service interruptions. The main issue was upload
speeds - down to 0.5 mbps with downloads down to 19mbps at times. I kept
records of all service interruptions, speed tests and screenshots of my
modem line speeds etc. With phonecalls and emails backwards and
forwards to Aussiebroadband (they tracked my service also) and when they
had sufficient info and had done everything they could with monitoring,
port resets and applying stability profiles it was referred on to NBN.
Over some months it took visits from three different NBN technicians
(Telsra?) before I finally got one who actually knew what he was doing
and found the problem - poor joint soldering and a faulty pair in the
post down the road. The other techs had also checked everything from the
node to my house right up to my internal telephone socket, so they took
responsibility to that point. The final successful tech was in telephone
contact the whole time he was testing with a woman in India - they can
check the performance of every phone line in the country from there.
I am 920m from the nearest node but am now getting 48mbps download and
15mbps upload - absolutely stable, and when ADSL is turned off on the
line it should get even better.
I would have to say that having telephone contact with someone in
Melbourne who I could understand, and who actually cared about my
problem, was a huge bonus. They would call me back regularly along with
email contact - I can't speak highly enough of their service. It took
time to resolve but that is attributable to the processes required by
the NBN and the number of tech appointments/visits to finally find the
problem.
My conclusion - choose your provider carefully and be persistent if a
problem arises with the NBN.
Bob
On 25/06/18 21:33, Tom Robinson via luv-main wrote:
I'm hoping someone here may have some insight to
cabling
responsibilities under the NBN and also my expected rights under the
Customer Service Guarantee (CSG).
I was talking to Internode today about transitioning to the NBN and had
a few surprises:
1. I will now be responsible for the cabling from my wall socket to some
as yet undefined location in the street (sales guy couldn't tell me
where that was).
2. I have to waive my rights to the CSG.
I have had two occasions in the last year when I've had to call Telstra
to come and fix my line issues (which they did at no cost to me). What
can I expect under the NBN?
1724
days inactive
1740
days old
11 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Andrew McGlashan -
bob -
Colin Fee -
George Georgakis -
Jason White -
Rohan McLeod -
Tom Robinson