5 Jun
2016
5 Jun
'16
7:56 p.m.
https://votecompass.abc.net.au/
The ABC has a web site to allow you to compare your beliefs with the policies
of the various parties.
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2016/election-20…
labor-in-stoush-with-abc-over-vote-compass-20160602-gpa4xc.html
Labor is whinging about the way it's run.
--
My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
6 Jun
6 Jun
1:17 a.m.
Hi,
On 5/06/2016 7:56 PM, Russell Coker via luv-talk wrote:
https://votecompass.abc.net.au/
The ABC has a web site to allow you to compare your beliefs with the policies
of the various parties.
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2016/election-20…
labor-in-stoush-with-abc-over-vote-compass-20160602-gpa4xc.html
Labor is whinging about the way it's run.
I don't care what anyone says; it is often claimed that the ABC is very
leftist. I HAVE TO DISAGREE. The number of personalities on ABC that
present anything to the public that are not aligned to LNP would be very
small -- they are all very well paid employees that naturally align with
LNP. It's a complete mystery to me that anyone could consider the ABC
leftist at all.
A.
1:56 a.m.
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 01:17:04 AM Andrew McGlashan via luv-talk wrote:
I don't care what anyone says; it is often claimed
that the ABC is very
leftist. I HAVE TO DISAGREE. The number of personalities on ABC that
present anything to the public that are not aligned to LNP would be very
small -- they are all very well paid employees that naturally align with
LNP. It's a complete mystery to me that anyone could consider the ABC
leftist at all.
People on the right make up conspiracy theories about media bias and scientific
bias because they reject facts. Reasonable people won't expect the media to
agree with them all the time, intelligent people with good intentions can
disagree about interpretations of evidence.
The ABC is largely about education. People on the right hate education, thus
they declare it leftist.
--
My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
2:37 a.m.
Russell Coker via luv-talk <luv-talk(a)luv.asn.au> wrote:
People on the right make up conspiracy theories about
media bias and scientific
bias because they reject facts. Reasonable people won't expect the media to
agree with them all the time, intelligent people with good intentions can
disagree about interpretations of evidence.
I've heard it argued (can't remember the source though) that the ABC
consistently receive allegations of bias from both the left and the right.
This is what I would expect, and I would interpret it as an indication that
they're presenting interpretations from all sides where they can, while also
seeking to uncover the facts.
The ABC is largely about education. People on the right hate education, thus
they declare it leftist.
Some of them also hold very narrow views of education as primarily a means of
preparing people to contribute to economic growth, rather than as preparing
them to be good citizens in a democracy.
12:19 p.m.
Russell Coker via luv-talk wrote:
https://votecompass.abc.net.au/
The ABC has a web site to allow you to compare your beliefs with the policies
of the various parties.
I was very amused to notice that while there's
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Greens#Policy_positions and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_First_Party#Political_ideology
There is no corresponding section for
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Labor_Party or
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Liberal_Party
which are largely devoted to history (i.e. the past).
This first-pass implication is that their ideology is so protean that
they can't bear to articulate it :P
1 p.m.
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 12:19:25 PM Trent W. Buck via luv-talk wrote:
Russell Coker via luv-talk wrote:
It's been a long time since the Labor party strongly advocated for workers.
Gough Whitlam was probably the last Labor leader who did so. Both the major
parties have few principles and pander to the lowest common denominator (EG
the "turn back the boats thing") as well as pandering to the super rich.
I could respect a conservative who said "we need to pay off the national debt
so we must make the super rich pay tax too" or a conservative who said "we
should invest in the country through education and research to develop
business instead of raising taxes". But I don't think I've heard a
conservative say either of those things.
The ALP has some decent people in it, but overall they don't seem to do much
good. Being less awful than Liberal isn't enough.
--
My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
https://votecompass.abc.net.au/
The ABC has a web site to allow you to compare your beliefs with the
policies of the various parties.
I was very amused to notice that while there's
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Greens#Policy_positions and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_First_Party#Political_ideology
There is no corresponding section for
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Labor_Party or
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Liberal_Party
which are largely devoted to history (i.e. the past).
This first-pass implication is that their ideology is so protean that
they can't bear to articulate it :P
1:20 p.m.
On 6/06/2016 1:00 PM, Russell Coker via luv-talk wrote:
> This first-pass implication is that their ideology
is so protean that
> they can't bear to articulate it :P
But, the LNP thinks the Internet is only for watching IPTV and other
rubbish, it isn't important for anything else to them.
Wikipedia is a great resource, but it does rely upon people to care
about issues to create content and others to help ensure the content is
legitimate.
It's been a long time since the Labor party
strongly advocated for workers.
Gough Whitlam was probably the last Labor leader who did so. Both the major
parties have few principles and pander to the lowest common denominator (EG
the "turn back the boats thing") as well as pandering to the super rich.
I could respect a conservative who said "we need to pay off the national debt
so we must make the super rich pay tax too" or a conservative who said "we
should invest in the country through education and research to develop
business instead of raising taxes". But I don't think I've heard a
conservative say either of those things.
Yes, I can agree with all of that; but our national debt is low compared
to many other countries -- so too are our fraudband speeds....
And yes, I would prefer zero debt, but it is never as bad as the LNP
makes it out to be when they can continue to get away with blaming the
ALP (and the Greens when they do that do is a bonus to them). The
deficit tripled under this rotten government? But who cares, the media
doesn't seem to give a toss.
The ALP has some decent people in it, but overall they
don't seem to do much
good. Being less awful than Liberal isn't enough.
Perhaps so, but I think you see a great deal of honesty with the ALP
that you never seem to see with LNP these days. Sure, ALP is far from
perfect, but it's difficult to see a fair voice for them in ANY media,
and sadly less so on the ABC than what is usually assumed and the abc is
palming the vote compass issues off to other parties, so abc isn't even,
themselves, fully responsible for the errors and problems in portrayal
of facts.
Cheers
A.
4 p.m.
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 01:20:31 PM Andrew McGlashan via luv-talk wrote:
We recently had one of the nutty conservatives on this list arguing that out
national debt was high and that we needed to cut government services.
--
My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
Wikipedia is a great resource, but it does rely upon
people to care
about issues to create content and others to help ensure the content is
legitimate.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jul/25/us-congress-banned-editi…
wikipedia-trolling
While that is true there is a great deal of interest in political articles
from politicians, above is one of many articles about the topic.
I think it's reasonable to assume that any Wikipedia page about a major
political party has content that the party generally doesn't disagree with
much.
I could
respect a conservative who said "we need to pay off the national
debt so we must make the super rich pay tax too" or a conservative who
said "we should invest in the country through education and research to
develop business instead of raising taxes". But I don't think I've
heard a conservative say either of those things.
Yes, I can agree with all of that; but our national debt is low compared
to many other countries -- so too are our fraudband speeds.... And yes, I would prefer zero debt,
Whatever you are running, personal finances, a company, or a country you have
some choices about the amount of debt to have. Obviously there are benefits to
having money saved up. But the problem in politics is that when there is
money saved up people elect conservatives who give it to the rich people in
the form of massive tax cuts.
I think that the best way of addressing this problem would be a constitutional
change stating that the government should be the sole monopoly in the country.
The government should own the electricty grid (can have private power
stations), the water supply, and Telecom. When the government did own those
things the users received better service and the profits subsidised government
operations.
but it is never as bad as the LNP
makes it out to be when they can continue to get away with blaming the
ALP (and the Greens when they do that do is a bonus to them). The
deficit tripled under this rotten government? But who cares, the media
doesn't seem to give a toss.
Cowardly journalists who are scared to be accused of having a left-wing bias
don't criticise conservatives.
The ALP has
some decent people in it, but overall they don't seem to do
much good. Being less awful than Liberal isn't enough.
Perhaps so, but I think you see a great deal of honesty with the ALP
that you never seem to see with LNP these days. Sure, ALP is far from
perfect, but it's difficult to see a fair voice for them in ANY media,
and sadly less so on the ABC than what is usually assumed and the abc is
palming the vote compass issues off to other parties, so abc isn't even,
themselves, fully responsible for the errors and problems in portrayal
of facts. 
4:37 p.m.
Russell Coker via luv-talk wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 01:20:31 PM Andrew McGlashan via
luv-talk wrote:
.......snip
Yes, I can agree with all of that; but our national debt is low compared
to many other countries -- so too are our fraudband speeds....
We recently had one of the nutty conservatives on this list arguing that out
national debt was high and that we needed to cut government services.
One needs to realise though, that as distinct from " personal finances"
or "a company ",
a government in some ways resembles a bank. Where the whole business model ,
relies on acquiring debt (the depositors) and lending it out at a rate
in excess of inflation,
plus the deposit interest rate.
So whilst having a balanced budget has it's advantages and doesn't
increase total debt;
that total debt as issued government bonds; does play a vital part in
the economy;
by offering a return on investment better than a bank, combined with
high security.
Perhaps we could ask of treasurers whether their deficit will have a
nett return ,
greater than bond rates plus inflation ;
in the ratio of increased government revenue to that deficit;
from it's expected enhancement to economic growth ?
regards Rohan McLeod
And yes, I would prefer zero debt,
Whatever you are running, personal finances, a company, or a country you have
some choices about the amount of debt to have.
2489
days inactive
2490
days old
8 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
Andrew McGlashan -
Jason White -
Rohan McLeod -
Russell Coker -
Trent W. Buck