7 Oct
2012
7 Oct
'12
10:27 a.m.
At some point it will become worthwhile to buy an Android phone (the
alternative would be to enter the closed world of Apple, which doesn't appeal
to me precisely because of its lack of openness).
Android 4.1 has improved accessibility for users who are blind, so it should
be a viable option for me.
I don't have an urgent need for this, so I can afford to wait for upcoming
products to be released - let's estimate a purchasing time-frame of the next 6
or 7 months, but it may be longer depending on other circumstances. Here are
the desired features apart from those which all current phones seem to have:
1. Compatibility with as many networks as possible - there is a real
possibility that I'll be travelling more in the next few years, so
compatibility with Australian, U.S. and European carriers is important. I am
also interested in Long-Term Evolution (LTE) support and any other standards
that I should be aware of.
2. Unlocked, with root access and as open as possible - obviously, not locked
to any carrier - suitable for development/testing, as needed. I know "open" is
very much a relative concept in the mobile phone area, unfortunately.
3. Good hardware specs (CPU, RAM, Flash), capable of being upgraded to newer
software releases for quite a long time - I am not in the "replace the
hardware every few years" game, unless there's a hardware failure or accident,
of course.
4. Hardware durability/reliability.
5. Any other features you think an experienced Linux user should look for...
As well as suggested products, I would welcome advice or links to articles
regarding what to look for and where to obtain quality devices in Australia
with unlocked boot loaders/root access. A vendor who could enable the
accessibility features would be desirable as well.
7 Oct
7 Oct
2:24 p.m.
On Sun, 7 Oct 2012, Jason White <jason(a)jasonjgw.net> wrote:
1. Compatibility with as many networks as possible -
there is a real
possibility that I'll be travelling more in the next few years, so
compatibility with Australian, U.S. and European carriers is important. I
am also interested in Long-Term Evolution (LTE) support and any other
standards that I should be aware of.
Why do you want LTE? I've found 3G to perform reasonably well and I expect
that performance will get better as the more demanding users move to LTE.
LTE appears to have more frequencies and therefore more difficulties in getting
coverage.
2. Unlocked, with root access and as open as possible
- obviously, not
locked to any carrier - suitable for development/testing, as needed. I
know "open" is very much a relative concept in the mobile phone area,
unfortunately.
A Nexus phone is the ideal solution to that.
3. Good hardware specs (CPU, RAM, Flash), capable of
being upgraded to
newer software releases for quite a long time - I am not in the "replace
the hardware every few years" game, unless there's a hardware failure or
accident, of course.
Again Nexus has good hardware specs. Not that you will have much difficulty in
this regard. A phone that runs Android 4.1 will be reasonably new hardware
which will have a good deal of RAM. For things other than games my Sony
Ericsson Xperia X10 with 384M of RAM is doing quite well. It seems that 1G is
about the minimum for any new phone that is desirable nowadays. So RAM
shouldn't be an issue.
Storage in phones starts at about 8G and goes up from there. If you take LOTS
of photos then you can have an issue, otherwise it's way excess to what you
need.
The only potential problem with storage is the partitioning which can result
in some partitions running out of space. But that's an issue of configuration,
I'm not sure how to determine which devices have the best configuration in this
regard.
4. Hardware durability/reliability.
Get a gel case which makes the phone a bit bouncy and also gives you a better
grip. With that you shouldn't have many problems in this regard. Also the
main hardware problem seems to be a cracked screen which probably won't bother
you much.
http://etbe.coker.com.au/2012/09/11/back-to-xperia-x10/
I have had one phone fail (see the above URL), I am starting to wonder if the
Galaxy S was a dodgey model. Not sure if that means anything about the newer
Samsung phones.
As well as suggested products, I would welcome advice
or links to articles
regarding what to look for and where to obtain quality devices in Australia
with unlocked boot loaders/root access. A vendor who could enable the
accessibility features would be desirable as well.
http://www.kogan.com/au/shop/phones/android/
Kogan seems to have good prices, but they provide no support at all, they post
stuff to you and that's it. They have the Galaxy Nexus for $339.
--
My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
4:53 p.m.
On 7/10/2012 2:24 PM, Russell Coker wrote:
http://www.kogan.com/au/shop/phones/android/
Kogan seems to have good prices, but they provide no support at all, they post
stuff to you and that's it. They have the Galaxy Nexus for $339.
Honestly, .... seriously .... Kogan???????
Get serious, they grey import, you don't get AU stock, you don't get AU
warranty ... they are far less than no good for "no support at all".
When you buy something from Kogan, you buy the minimum AU statutory
warranty and then you pay extra, sometimes a lot extra, for what should
be "standard" warranty periods for equipment.
Oh and like many other companies that use FB for likes so that you can
comment on them, any negative comments will be simply deleted, however
true and real they are as they obviously detract from the message.
Needless to say the whole "like" situation on FB is way over blown and
is a false way to further deceive the market (at least all the dills
that think FB numbers really mean something).
Cheers
A.
6:22 p.m.
On Sun, 7 Oct 2012, Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan(a)affinityvision.com.au>
wrote:
On 7/10/2012 2:24 PM, Russell Coker wrote:
Why is grey importing a problem?
Do phones have any worth-while warranty? The three main sources of phone
problems are smashed screens, loss, and theft. The sale warranty won't cover
the last two and seems unlikely to cover the first one.
http://www.kogan.com/au/shop/phones/android/
Kogan seems to have good prices, but they provide no support at all, they
post stuff to you and that's it. They have the Galaxy Nexus for $339.
Honestly, .... seriously .... Kogan???????
Get serious, they grey import, you don't get AU stock, you don't get AU
warranty ... they are far less than no good for "no support at all". When you buy something from Kogan, you buy the minimum
AU statutory
warranty and then you pay extra, sometimes a lot extra, for what should
be "standard" warranty periods for equipment.
http://www.kogan.com/au/warranty-terms-and-conditions/
They offer a basic 12 month warranty. Phones are designed around a 24 month
telco plan for replacement. You probably won't want to use a phone that's
more than 2 years old as there will be significant new features and the old
phone will be worn in some ways. At the minimum you will have to buy a new
battery for $40 if you want a phone to last much more than 2 years.
So a 1 year warranty for a device that's unlikely to be used for more than 2
years (assuming it's not smashed, lost, or stolen) doesn't seem too bad.
Oh and like many other companies that use FB for likes
so that you can
comment on them, any negative comments will be simply deleted, however
true and real they are as they obviously detract from the message.
Needless to say the whole "like" situation on FB is way over blown and
is a false way to further deceive the market (at least all the dills
that think FB numbers really mean something).
I don't use FB and don't care about such things.
The only criticism I have of Kogan is that they sell items they don't have in
stock and can take a while to deliver.
--
My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
6:30 p.m.
On 7 October 2012 18:22, Russell Coker <russell(a)coker.com.au> wrote:
Do phones have any worth-while warranty? The three
main sources of phone
problems are smashed screens, loss, and theft. The sale warranty won't cover
the last two and seems unlikely to cover the first one.
My brother's phone (a Galaxy Nexus) suddenly and for no explainable
reason lost all 3G reception. Everything else worked fine. We proved
it wasn't a fault with the SIM and standard techniques like rebooting
failed to help. It had to be sent in for warranty repairs to get
fixed.
In the past I have purchased phones with known design defects (e.g.
badly mounted USB socket on Nokia N900 that can fail, badly mounted
on/off switch on the Nexus One that causes the ribbon cable to break
after a while).
--
Brian May <brian(a)microcomaustralia.com.au>
6:54 p.m.
Hi,
On 7/10/2012 6:30 PM, Brian May wrote:
On 7 October 2012 18:22, Russell Coker
<russell(a)coker.com.au> wrote:
Yes, radios can burn out too due to a manufacture fault that doesn't
present itself early in the products life time.
Do phones have any worth-while warranty? The
three main sources of phone
problems are smashed screens, loss, and theft. The sale warranty won't cover
the last two and seems unlikely to cover the first one.
My brother's phone (a Galaxy Nexus) suddenly and for no explainable
reason lost all 3G reception. Everything else worked fine. We proved
it wasn't a fault with the SIM and standard techniques like rebooting
failed to help. It had to be sent in for warranty repairs to get
fixed. In the past I have purchased phones with known design
defects (e.g.
badly mounted USB socket on Nokia N900 that can fail, badly mounted
on/off switch on the Nexus One that causes the ribbon cable to break
after a while).
Do you know if the N900 problem was ever fixed with later batches? I've
seen "brand new" units of these for sale too, but I can only guess that
they must be old stock because I don't think Nokia has made them for
years now. Do you know anything more about the N900's that are
currently being sold as brand new?
The other concern with non AU stock (grey imports) is that the software
on the phone itself could be a problem, also branding of the phone and
different chips/features. I have a Samsung Galaxy S3, needless to say
it is AU stock without carrier branding of any kind (not just unlocked).
It has quad-core cpu and 1GB ram -- other models have dual-core and 2gb
ram and different radios. There are lots of variations, LTE radio is
another variation. There is much more to be concerned about than
warranty with grey imports and not buying local (I mean really local)
can make things more difficult when it comes to dealing with warranty
repairs.
Cheers
A.
7:31 p.m.
On Sun, 7 Oct 2012, Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan(a)affinityvision.com.au>
wrote:
The other concern with non AU stock (grey imports) is
that the software
on the phone itself could be a problem,
That's not a problem if you plan to re-flash the phone yourself.
As an aside one issue is that the OS build seems to have the emergency number
hard-coded. My Samsung Galaxy S running Cyanogenmod will call 112 while
locked but not 000, my telco (Virgin on the Optus network) doesn't route 112
calls. The fact that my Galaxy S was bought locally wasn't relevant, it was
the source of the CyanogenMod image that was the problem.
also branding of the phone and
different chips/features. I have a Samsung Galaxy S3, needless to say
it is AU stock without carrier branding of any kind (not just unlocked).
It has quad-core cpu and 1GB ram -- other models have dual-core and 2gb
ram and different radios.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_S_3
According to Wikipedia you must have the international version, the AU version
has 2G of RAM. Kogan also sells a model with only 1G of RAM. I agree that
paying more for double the RAM could be a good idea, although I have yet to
find a great need for more than 384M.
There are lots of variations, LTE radio is
another variation.
The Galaxy S3 which is offered by Virgin mobile only supports 3G. The one
Kogan sells supports Telstra NextG as well as 3G. Do you know how to get a
Galaxy S3 in Australia with any LTE support?
Can you suggest a good Australian supplier who has a price similar to the $499
for a Galaxy S3 from Kogan?
http://www.mobicity.com.au/phones/smartphones/android.html
Mobicity has the Galaxy S3 for $799 and the Galaxy Nexus for $389. Paying an
extra $50 for the Galaxy Nexus might be a reasonable investment, but an extra
$300 for the Galaxy S3 seems like a bad deal.
http://www.mobicity.com.au/samsung-galaxy-s3-i9305-16gb.html
Mobicity's Galaxy S3 supports Telstra LTE. But an extra $300 for the phone
and extra expense for the Telstra network is going to cost too much for most
people.
If I wanted LTE I'd consider getting a LTE Wifi bridge on Telstra pre-paid for
when I really need it and just use 3G the rest of the time.
--
My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
11:29 p.m.
Hi Russell -- please do a reply to list, I am listening there ;)
On 7/10/2012 7:31 PM, Russell Coker wrote:
Wikipedia is quite often just wrong.....
There are multiple versions everywhere. What was most important to me
when I purchased the phone was that I got it from a local supplier whom
insisted that I got proper AU stock with proper AU warranty of an
unbranded (and therefore naturally unlocked) phone.
If you look at this link, you can see lots of AU variants:
http://www.sammobile.com/firmware/
[just search on 9300]
I definitely have an AU phone (if it is somehow also an International
version, well so be it).
The GSM and 3G frequencies are likely all the same in AU, no matter what
provider. The 4G or LTE is currently, I believe, just an Optus variant
to support their new use of the LTE frequency.
On Sun, 7 Oct 2012, Andrew McGlashan
<andrew.mcglashan(a)affinityvision.com.au>
wrote:
I've been there, done that, right now I just want stock software from
Samsung, no network branding, no other bloatware. I too had an S model,
if it was my only Samsung experience, then I would not have gotten the
S3. I was less than happy with the S overall, not enough RAM and the
need to flash to get later OS (2.3.7). I am expecting 4.1 for my S3 any
time now.
The other concern with non AU stock (grey
imports) is that the software
on the phone itself could be a problem,
That's not a problem if you plan to re-flash the phone yourself. As an aside one issue is that the OS build seems to
have the emergency number
hard-coded. My Samsung Galaxy S running Cyanogenmod will call 112 while
locked but not 000, my telco (Virgin on the Optus network) doesn't route 112
calls. The fact that my Galaxy S was bought locally wasn't relevant, it was
the source of the CyanogenMod image that was the problem.
Okay.
also branding
of the phone and
different chips/features. I have a Samsung Galaxy S3, needless to say
it is AU stock without carrier branding of any kind (not just unlocked).
It has quad-core cpu and 1GB ram -- other models have dual-core and 2gb
ram and different radios.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_S_3
According to Wikipedia you must have the international version, the AU version
has 2G of RAM. Kogan also sells a model with only 1G of RAM. I agree that
paying more for double the RAM could be a good idea, although I have yet to
find a great need for more than 384M. There are lots
of variations, LTE radio is
another variation.
The Galaxy S3 which is offered by Virgin mobile only supports 3G. The one
Kogan sells supports Telstra NextG as well as 3G. Do you know how to get a
Galaxy S3 in Australia with any LTE support? Can you suggest a good Australian supplier who has a
price similar to the $499
for a Galaxy S3 from Kogan?
Perhaps try:
http://www.thinkofus.com.au/Samsung-i9300-Galaxy-S-III-16GB-S3-p/7186.htm
That is AU stock with 24 month Samsung warranty, a little more than $499
but not that much more.
Kogan has $499 with 12 month warranty, 3 years add $79 or 5 years add $109
More about the Kogan option from their own webpage:
"This Product is offered and supplied by Kogan HK Limited pursuant to
the Terms and Conditions."
Now, another complaint about Kogan is that you are buying from Kogan HK
and therefore there is no tax invoice so you cannot claim GST on the
purchase either!
I think that LTE models have more RAM than non-LTE models, hence why my
AU version which doesn't have LTE is 1GB RAM.
http://www.mobicity.com.au/phones/smartphones/android.html
Mobicity has the Galaxy S3 for $799 and the Galaxy Nexus for $389. Paying an
extra $50 for the Galaxy Nexus might be a reasonable investment, but an extra
$300 for the Galaxy S3 seems like a bad deal.
http://www.mobicity.com.au/samsung-galaxy-s3-i9305-16gb.html
Mobicity's Galaxy S3 supports Telstra LTE. But an extra $300 for the phone
and extra expense for the Telstra network is going to cost too much for most
people.
If I wanted LTE I'd consider getting a LTE Wifi bridge on Telstra pre-paid for
when I really need it and just use 3G the rest of the time.
Cheers
--
Kind Regards
AndrewM
Andrew McGlashan
Broadband Solutions now including VoIP
Current Land Line No: 03 9012 2102
Mobile: 04 2574 1827 Fax: 03 9012 2178
National No: 1300 85 3804
Affinity Vision Australia Pty Ltd
http://affinityvision.com.au
http://securemywireless.com.au
http://adsl2choice.net.au
In Case of Emergency -- http://affinityvision.com.au/ice.html
11:33 p.m.
The 2GB S3 versions also have dual-core CPUs, not the quad-core that I have.
Cheers
A.
11:41 p.m.
On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 12:29 PM, Andrew McGlashan <
andrew.mcglashan(a)affinityvision.com.au> wrote:
Kogan HK Limited pursuant to
the Terms and Conditions."
Now, another complaint about Kogan is that you are buying from Kogan HK
and therefore there is no tax invoice so you cannot claim GST on the
purchase either!
As you are buying the product from Kogan HK you aren't paying GST anyway so
how could you claim it ? Of course if the order is over $1000 thats
diffrent but then you would have an invoice from customs for the GST you
paid allowing you to then claim the GST you actually paid..
--
Mark "Pockets" Clohesy
Mob Phone: (+61) 406 417 877
Email: hiddensoul(a)twistedsouls.com
G-Talk: mark.clohesy(a)gmail.com
-
GNU/Linux..
Linux Counter #457297
"I would love to change the world, but they won't give me the source code"
"Linux is user friendly...its just selective about who its friends are"
"Never underestimate the bandwidth of a V8 station wagon full of tapes
hurtling down the highway"
"The difference between e-mail and regular mail is that computers handle
e-mail, and computers never decide to come to work one day and shoot all
the other computers"
11:49 p.m.
Hi,
On 7/10/2012 11:41 PM, Hiddensoul (Mark Clohesy) wrote:
Now, another complaint about Kogan is that you are
buying from Kogan HK
and therefore there is no tax invoice so you cannot claim GST on the
purchase either!
As you are buying the product from Kogan HK you aren't paying GST anyway
so how could you claim it ? Of course if the order is over $1000 thats
diffrent but then you would have an invoice from customs for the GST you
paid allowing you to then claim the GST you actually paid..
Correct, but that is another reason why their product is "artificially"
lower priced and it underlines the fact that it isn't AU stock.
I would expect thinkofus to provide a proper tax invoice and with them
you get the 2 years standard AU warranty on the item I linked to. They
also sell grey imports but Kogan ONLY sells grey imports.
Cheers
A.
11:56 p.m.
On Sun, 7 Oct 2012, Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan(a)affinityvision.com.au>
wrote:
That's nice for you. Jason wants root access and therefore needs to flash it.
The GSM and 3G frequencies are likely all the same in AU, no matter what
provider. The 4G or LTE is currently, I believe, just an Optus variant
to support their new use of the LTE frequency.
http://www.kogan.com/au/buy/samsung-galaxy-s3-16gb-red/
Kogan describes the S3 as being quad-band to support all Australian networks.
When $71 is defined as "a little" then that's the case.
That's not
a problem if you plan to re-flash the phone yourself.
I've been there, done that, right now I just want stock software from
Samsung, no network branding, no other bloatware. There are lots of variations, LTE radio is
another variation.
The Galaxy S3 which is offered by Virgin mobile only supports 3G. The
one Kogan sells supports Telstra NextG as well as 3G. Do you know how
to get a Galaxy S3 in Australia with any LTE support? Can you
suggest a good Australian supplier who has a price similar to the
$499 for a Galaxy S3 from Kogan?
Perhaps try:
http://www.thinkofus.com.au/Samsung-i9300-Galaxy-S-III-16GB-S3-p/7186.htm
That is AU stock with 24 month Samsung warranty, a little more than $499
but not that much more. Kogan has $499 with 12 month warranty, 3 years add $79
or 5 years add $109
So far in over 10 years of owning mobile phones and often having more than one
phone for my personal use as well as being the main support person for all my
close relatives I've only had one phone fail. That one phone is running
CyanogenMod which combined with the unusual way I received it (Optus gave it
to a client for free who then gave it to me) means that it's not even worth
asking about warranty support.
So out of 20+ phones only one had a problem, that's less than a 5% fault rate.
Paying 14% extra to cover the 5% chance of failure is bad value even if you
aren't going to do something to void the warranty. As a general rule self-
insurance is always better value if you can afford the worst case scenario -
avoiding morale jeopardy alone assures that.
Also for the phone which failed, it was only 3G data that caused a problem. I
now use it as a tiny Wifi tablet, so getting it replaced wouldn't recover the
entire value of the phone as it's still providing some value in it's diminshed
state.
Now, another complaint about Kogan is that you are
buying from Kogan HK
and therefore there is no tax invoice so you cannot claim GST on the
purchase either!
Yes, you can get ~12% back if you are registered for GST. That would almost
make the expensive local company you cited become competitive with Kogan for
buyers who are registered for GST. I'm not registered for GST so this isn't a
problem for me.
--
My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
8 Oct
8 Oct
12:24 a.m.
On 7/10/2012 11:56 PM, Russell Coker wrote:
It's less than $71 when you take into account GST as most people would
have to, even if it doesn't apply to you Russell. Plus you do get the
second year of warranty from Samsung AU (for what it is really worth).
Perhaps you've been lucky, but using that logic, do you take out car
insurance at all, perhaps not? It might similarly payout to not take
car insurance.... but YMMV.
It's not expensive for proper AU stock, that's the point. The non-AU
stock is cheap for a reason and it doesn't always work out, but sure,
sometimes it does work out.
Quad band GSM and quad band 3G are very common on new phones; the same
frequencies used by all AU networks.
Kogan can easily claim it works with all Australian networks, to a
point, it does on the GSM frequencies used by every telco here. It does
for the 3G networks too -- both GSM and 3G are using frequencies in AU
that are all covered by the radios built-in to most newer phones these
days. The difference comes when you need 4G (LTE) now..... and that has
about 23 frequencies world wide, not sure how many frequencies we'll end
up with, but right now I think LTE is all done over 1800MHz but I'm not
sure on that. In time we'll have LTE over the frequencies currently
used by the analogue TV networks.... that will be a reason to buy a new
phone (maybe).
Also note that whilst 2100MHz has been used by Telstra for 3G, they will
(if they haven't already), only use that for LTE or Next-G. Other GSM
network frequencies are being re-purposed by Optus (and I'm sure others)
to use 3G instead of GSM as more and more people have phones that
support 3G, the support for GSM will be much less required.
Cheers
A.
On Sun, 7 Oct 2012, Andrew McGlashan
<andrew.mcglashan(a)affinityvision.com.au>
Rooting phones is over rated and it also adds risk. I know you have a
use case for it (as per one of the LUV meetings for backup purposes),
but I don't keep anything on my phone that isn't otherwise backed up
elsewhere.
Even if you don't root the phone and you open up USB debug mode (adb),
then you are seriously at risk with your phone even with an otherwise
secure lock screen.
http://hak5.org/episodes/hak5-1205
And Kos has the app in the app store too, for what it's worth, but it
isn't called p2padb there. The following search finds it though:
https://play.google.com/store/search?q=p2padb
I've been there, done that, right now I just
want stock software from
Samsung, no network branding, no other bloatware.
That's nice for you. Jason wants root access and therefore needs to flash it.
Perhaps try:
http://www.thinkofus.com.au/Samsung-i9300-Galaxy-S-III-16GB-S3-p/7186.htm
That is AU stock with 24 month Samsung warranty, a little more than $499
but not that much more.
When $71 is defined as "a little" then that's the case. Kogan has $499
with 12 month warranty, 3 years add $79 or 5 years add $109
So far in over 10 years of owning mobile phones and often having more than one
phone for my personal use as well as being the main support person for all my
close relatives I've only had one phone fail. That one phone is running
CyanogenMod which combined with the unusual way I received it (Optus gave it
to a client for free who then gave it to me) means that it's not even worth
asking about warranty support.
So out of 20+ phones only one had a problem, that's less than a 5% fault rate.
Paying 14% extra to cover the 5% chance of failure is bad value even if you
aren't going to do something to void the warranty. As a general rule self-
insurance is always better value if you can afford the worst case scenario -
avoiding morale jeopardy alone assures that. Now, another
complaint about Kogan is that you are buying from Kogan HK
and therefore there is no tax invoice so you cannot claim GST on the
purchase either!
Yes, you can get ~12% back if you are registered for GST. That would almost
make the expensive local company you cited become competitive with Kogan for
buyers who are registered for GST. I'm not registered for GST so this isn't a
problem for me.
12:43 a.m.
On Mon, 8 Oct 2012, Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan(a)affinityvision.com.au>
wrote:
I really doubt that even here you would find that "most people" are registered
for GST and sending out GST invoices.
I can't afford the worst-case scenario of a car crash. The loss of my own
vehicle (given that 3d party is the legal minimum insurance) would be an
unreasonable burden. It wouldn't bankrupt me but it would change my work
plans for the next year or two to get things back on track. But I can just go
out and buy a new phone tomorrow.
Rooting phones is over rated and it also adds risk.
What risk does it add? When you have a rooted Android phone any app that
wants root access does it via a confirmation prompt that allows you to deny
access.
When $71 is
defined as "a little" then that's the case.
It's less than $71 when you take into account GST as most people would
have to, even if it doesn't apply to you Russell. Plus you do get the
second year of warranty from Samsung AU (for what it is really worth). even if you
aren't going to do something to void the warranty. As a
general rule self- insurance is always better value if you can afford
the worst case scenario - avoiding morale jeopardy alone assures that.
Perhaps you've been lucky, but using that logic, do you take out car
insurance at all, perhaps not? It might similarly payout to not take
car insurance.... but YMMV. It's not expensive for proper AU stock, that's
the point. The non-AU
stock is cheap for a reason and it doesn't always work out, but sure,
sometimes it does work out.
So far the only phone that hasn't worked out for me and for all my relatives
who get me to manage their phones is one that probably had no warranty to
begin with and definitely had no warranty after I rooted it.
I think that theoretically it sometimes doesn't work out in a way where the
extended warranty would help even though I haven't seen that happen. But in
practice I'm not getting any benefit in buying locally.
days. The difference comes when you need 4G (LTE)
now..... and that has
http://www.thinkofus.com.au/Samsung-i9300-Galaxy-S-III-16GB-S3-p/7186.htm
You previously cited the above URL for a phone which doesn't support LTE. It
appears to have EXACTLY the same network support as the Kogan phones.
If you can cite an example of a Galaxy S3 with LTE support on sale in
Australia then it would help your argument. Especially for Jason who
expressed interest in LTE.
Anyway in terms of 3G performance, the biggest problem that I've found is
performance sucking in city areas which is presumably due to excessive
congestion. Presumably when LTE becomes popular this will be less of an issue
as the most demanding users will stop using 3G.
Early next year I will buy a new phone, maybe from Kogan, and LTE support
won't matter to me. I am confident that 3G will do for me until early 2015.
Also note that whilst 2100MHz has been used by Telstra
for 3G, they will
(if they haven't already), only use that for LTE or Next-G. Other GSM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LTE_networks
Wikipedia has no reference to Band 1 use in Australia. Can you cite a
reference for Telstra doing this? Presumably they will give significant
advance notice to allow phone manufacturers to develop products for use in
Australia, there would be no point building a network with no phones to use
it.
--
My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
1:40 a.m.
Hi,
On 8/10/2012 12:43 AM, Russell Coker wrote:
I can't afford the worst-case scenario of a car crash. The loss of my own
vehicle (given that 3d party is the legal minimum insurance) would be an
unreasonable burden. It wouldn't bankrupt me but it would change my work
plans for the next year or two to get things back on track. But I can just go
out and buy a new phone tomorrow.
I believe that 3rd party compulsory insurance ONLY applies (in Victoria)
to 3rd party personal; it is not compulsory to have any kind of property
insurance for a motor vehicle. The compulsory part is detailed as part
of your normal Victorian registration fees.
I don't think that rooting a phone should be grounds for dismissal of
your warranty; although many people claim that to be the case.
On Mon, 8 Oct 2012, Andrew McGlashan
<andrew.mcglashan(a)affinityvision.com.au>
wrote:
I really doubt that even here you would find that "most people" are registered
for GST and sending out GST invoices.
For those not able to claim GST, they _may_ be better off getting a
"free" or low cost phone as part of a mobile contract. In which case,
ACCC rulings have made it clear that a phone should be warranted for the
period of the said phone service contract.
Rooting phones is over rated and it also adds
risk.
What risk does it add? When you have a rooted Android phone any app that
wants root access does it via a confirmation prompt that allows you to deny
access.
When $71
is defined as "a little" then that's the case.
It's less than $71 when you take into account GST as most people would
have to, even if it doesn't apply to you Russell. Plus you do get the
second year of warranty from Samsung AU (for what it is really worth). even if you aren't going to do something to void
the warranty. As a
general rule self- insurance is always better value if you can afford
the worst case scenario - avoiding morale jeopardy alone assures that.
Perhaps you've been lucky, but using that logic, do you take out car
insurance at all, perhaps not? It might similarly payout to not take
car insurance.... but YMMV. It's not
expensive for proper AU stock, that's the point. The non-AU
stock is cheap for a reason and it doesn't always work out, but sure,
sometimes it does work out.
So far the only phone that hasn't worked out for me and for all my relatives
who get me to manage their phones is one that probably had no warranty to
begin with and definitely had no warranty after I rooted it. I think that theoretically it sometimes doesn't
work out in a way where the
extended warranty would help even though I haven't seen that happen. But in
practice I'm not getting any benefit in buying locally.
Correct, I never said it had LTE support, I did say that would be
another variant.
days. The difference comes when you need 4G
(LTE) now..... and that has
http://www.thinkofus.com.au/Samsung-i9300-Galaxy-S-III-16GB-S3-p/7186.htm
You previously cited the above URL for a phone which doesn't support LTE. It
appears to have EXACTLY the same network support as the Kogan phones. If you can cite an example of a Galaxy S3 with LTE
support on sale in
Australia then it would help your argument. Especially for Jason who
expressed interest in LTE.
It's irrelevant to the tangent that this conversation has taken.
Anyway in terms of 3G performance, the biggest problem
that I've found is
performance sucking in city areas which is presumably due to excessive
congestion. Presumably when LTE becomes popular this will be less of an issue
as the most demanding users will stop using 3G.
Yes, but I think the biggest reason is that voice has priority over data
and data will always just take up some extra cash for the telcos on top
of the monies they make from calls and exorbitantly priced SMS.
Early next year I will buy a new phone, maybe from
Kogan, and LTE support
won't matter to me. I am confident that 3G will do for me until early 2015.
Okay, well 1800MHz for today in AU for LTE -- add in other frequencies
when analogue TV frequencies are made available for mobile.
Here's a Telstra link:
http://www.telstra.com.au/mobile-phones/coverage-networks/network-informati…
So 2100MHz for 3G is out for Telstra customers now (as of the 31st
August 2012). So, it's 850 or nothing for Next-G services right now.
Cheers
A.
Also note that whilst 2100MHz has been used by
Telstra for 3G, they will
(if they haven't already), only use that for LTE or Next-G. Other GSM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LTE_networks
Wikipedia has no reference to Band 1 use in Australia. Can you cite a
reference for Telstra doing this? Presumably they will give significant
advance notice to allow phone manufacturers to develop products for use in
Australia, there would be no point building a network with no phones to use
it.
9:47 a.m.
On Mon, 8 Oct 2012, Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan(a)affinityvision.com.au>
wrote:
The fact that I might crash into a car that's more expensive than mine makes
the case for 3rd party insurance more compelling regardless of statutory
requirements.
I don't think that rooting a phone should be grounds for dismissal of
your warranty; although many people claim that to be the case.
Generally when you want any warranty support you need to demonstrate that it's
not something you did.
--
My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
For those not able to claim GST, they _may_ be better
off getting a
"free" or low cost phone as part of a mobile contract. In which case,
ACCC rulings have made it clear that a phone should be warranted for the
period of the said phone service contract.
http://etbe.coker.com.au/2012/09/22/phone-prices-australia/
Except that mobile phones that are "free" on contracts cost more than phones
from Kogan.
I can't
afford the worst-case scenario of a car crash. The loss of my
own vehicle (given that 3d party is the legal minimum insurance) would
be an unreasonable burden. It wouldn't bankrupt me but it would change
my work plans for the next year or two to get things back on track. But
I can just go out and buy a new phone tomorrow.
I believe that 3rd party compulsory insurance ONLY applies (in Victoria)
to 3rd party personal; it is not compulsory to have any kind of property
insurance for a motor vehicle. The compulsory part is detailed as part
of your normal Victorian registration fees. It's not expensive for proper AU stock, that's
the point. The non-AU
stock is cheap for a reason and it doesn't always work out, but sure,
sometimes it does work out.
So far the only phone that hasn't worked out for me and for all my
relatives who get me to manage their phones is one that probably had no
warranty to begin with and definitely had no warranty after I rooted it.
1:12 p.m.
Hi,
On 8/10/2012 9:47 AM, Russell Coker wrote:
I still don't subscribe to that theory; if the phone is faulty, it is
faulty. Just about the only way you can damage it [by something you
did] with root access is perhaps frying a radio by increasing it's power
beyond the "normal" level or over clocking the device. Aside from that,
I would expect a manufacturer warranty to be 100% okay even with a
rooted phone. Technically if you use ANY charger not supplied by the
manufacturer, your warranty might be void, but again I see that as an
unfair copout which the manufacturers should not be able to get away with.
Cheers
A.
Except that mobile phones that are "free" on
contracts cost more than phones
from Kogan.
Yes, of course, but some plans do work out cheap IF the phone plan
itself suits otherwise -- you can get a subsidized phone. If you over
buy the phone plan, then yes, you are over buying the phone and the
total minimum commitment is high.
You can win out with a plan though. I've previously bought a $500 phone
at $20 * 24 months payments with no extra charge. Then I had $20 credit
on the network to use if I wanted, but the phone cost less this way
(instead of initial outright purchase). But it all depends on the plan
you can use and what suits you as to whether or not buying outright is
the better option.
I usually buy outright now due to tax reasons. I am entitled to buy as
part of salary packaging, a phone in my name. The company re-imburses
me the cost of the phone in lieu of salary and claims the phone expense.
I can then claim the phone expense in my personal income tax return;
but I must buy the phone in my own name. Talk to your accountant to see
if it will work out for you.
>>> It's not expensive for proper AU
stock, that's the point. The non-AU
>>> stock is cheap for a reason and it doesn't always work out, but sure,
>>> sometimes it does work out.
>>
>> So far the only phone that hasn't worked out for me and for all my
>> relatives who get me to manage their phones is one that probably had no
>> warranty to begin with and definitely had no warranty after I rooted it.
Blame the manufacturers whom price AU stock for the higher costs, or
blame the AU consumer laws; it doesn't matter either way. If you want
AU stock, you have to pay a price and most of that price is made up of
costs from local suppliers (Bright Point are the only wholesaler whom
can supply Samsung Galaxy S3 phones that are unbranded, unless you can
get them from Samsung direct).
I don't
think that rooting a phone should be grounds for dismissal of
your warranty; although many people claim that to be the case.
Generally when you want any warranty support you need to demonstrate that it's
not something you did.
1:23 p.m.
Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan(a)affinityvision.com.au> wrote:
I still don't subscribe to that theory; if the
phone is faulty, it is
faulty. Just about the only way you can damage it [by something you
did] with root access is perhaps frying a radio by increasing it's power
beyond the "normal" level or over clocking the device. Aside from that,
I would expect a manufacturer warranty to be 100% okay even with a
rooted phone.
The user might, for example, overwrite and corrupt the boot loader and
whatever software is needed to install an OS image on the device, rendering it
useless.
As long as the software needed to load an image remains intact then one should
be able to recover from a failed copying operation or a bad image, though.
3:08 p.m.
Jason White wrote:
The user might, for example, overwrite and corrupt the
boot loader
and whatever software is needed to install an OS image on the
device, rendering it useless.
As long as the software needed to load an image remains intact then
one should be able to recover from a failed copying operation or a
bad image, though.
On a tegra2, at least, the bootloader is bakend into a ROM and you
cannot blow it away.
Of course, that can probably only load from the eMMC, so if you
managed to used up all your writes on the eMMC you'd no longer be able
to chainload e.g. u-boot off the eMMC in order to boot off an SD or
USB key, which would effectively brick it.
10:21 a.m.
This has been an interesting discussion so far. After a little more research:
I will definitely need Android 4.1 at a minimum, with upgrades to later
releases, for accessibility reasons, and preferably "plain" Android,
i.e., without a phone manufacturer's user interface modifications. This way,
the accessibility support (speech, braille etc.) will be more reliable, as the
user interface is that supplied by Google, whose developers are responsible
for the accessibility. (So far as I know, the major phone manufacturers do not
have expertise in this area in relation to Android.)
Unrestricted access to the device for replacing operating system images is
highly desirable.
The Nexus phones appear to be the closest current option, but some of the
newer phones from various manufacturers have better hardware specifications.
It might be best to wait and observe whether a new Nexus model is release
during my purchasing time-frame. Alterantively, the Galaxy S III looks
attractive among current models, though it apparently lacks LTE support.
10:32 a.m.
On 08/10/12 10:21, Jason White wrote:
The Nexus phones appear to be the closest current
option, but some of the
newer phones from various manufacturers have better hardware specifications.
Keep in mind with the Galaxy Nexus that although for the most part,
Google handles the release of the updated OS, there are some variants of
it where Samsung does quality control first and as a result, there is a
delay.
My Galaxy Nexus, which I bought through Kogan, is one of these models
("yakjuxw") - and I'm still waiting for an OTA update for 4.1, three
months after Google released it to the regular Galaxy Nexus phones. I
have no idea when it's likely to happen. Of course, I could unlock the
phone and manually upgrade it myself, but I don't want to risk voiding
the warranty.
Cheers,
Paul
10:35 a.m.
Paul Dwerryhouse <paul(a)dwerryhouse.com.au> wrote:
My Galaxy Nexus, which I bought through Kogan, is one
of these models
("yakjuxw") - and I'm still waiting for an OTA update for 4.1, three
months after Google released it to the regular Galaxy Nexus phones. I
have no idea when it's likely to happen. Of course, I could unlock the
phone and manually upgrade it myself, but I don't want to risk voiding
the warranty.
Is it possible to buy a phone that is already unlocked in this respect (i.e.,
open to having new OS images installed by the user)?
12:58 p.m.
On 8/10/2012 10:35 AM, Jason White wrote:
Paul Dwerryhouse <paul(a)dwerryhouse.com.au>
wrote:
It depends on the phone, but normally this is easily done. There are
the usual caveats about rooting a phone to update it, but as Russell has
said, he has had trouble with his Sony phone.
When it comes to LTE or other "regional" differences, there is usually
multiple versions of each phone model -- even the iPhone has different
versions for different regions due to radio requirements.
Bottom line is that if you need LTE, you need to make sure the
particular phone variant you buy has LTE, same as I had to make sure
that the phone I bought was a proper AU stock model with full 24 month
Samsung warranty.
Samsung Galaxy S3 has quite a few variants, some do have LTE capability.
Cheers
AndrewM
My Galaxy Nexus, which I bought through Kogan, is
one of these models
("yakjuxw") - and I'm still waiting for an OTA update for 4.1, three
months after Google released it to the regular Galaxy Nexus phones. I
have no idea when it's likely to happen. Of course, I could unlock the
phone and manually upgrade it myself, but I don't want to risk voiding
the warranty.
Is it possible to buy a phone that is already unlocked in this respect (i.e.,
open to having new OS images installed by the user)?
1:53 p.m.
On Mon, 8 Oct 2012, Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan(a)affinityvision.com.au>
wrote:
The malfunctioning Galaxy S I posess randomly crashes, when it's not crashing
it works well. The manufacturer would probably claim that the crashes are due
to a bad CyanogenMod image - a bad image could cause exactly what the phone is
doing now. However I had the phone working perfectly for over 6 months before
it started crashing so I know that it's not CyanogenMod at fault, I can't
prove that as there's no way of going back to a stock image.
--
My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
It depends on the phone, but normally this is easily
done. There are
the usual caveats about rooting a phone to update it, but as Russell has
said, he has had trouble with his Sony phone.
I had trouble with my Samsung phone, but got it working, fortunately it is
designed for easy recovery. I never tried moding my Sony phone because Sony
make it really hard to do that and you'll never get a good result.
When it comes to LTE or other "regional"
differences, there is usually
multiple versions of each phone model -- even the iPhone has different
versions for different regions due to radio requirements.
LTE will probably add extra difficulty for the "modem" files that you need to
enable the frequencies in the chipset. Basically you need firmware files that
match the model of phone and the frequencies in use in your region.
On Mon, 8 Oct 2012, Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan(a)affinityvision.com.au>
wrote:
On 8/10/2012 9:47 AM, Russell Coker wrote:
No, some plans used to be cheap. But now the plan prices have increased while
the phone prices haven't.
Except that mobile phones that are
"free" on contracts cost more than
phones from Kogan.
Yes, of course, but some plans do work out cheap IF the phone plan
itself suits otherwise -- you can get a subsidized phone. If you over
buy the phone plan, then yes, you are over buying the phone and the
total minimum commitment is high. You can win out with a plan though. I've
previously bought a $500 phone
at $20 * 24 months payments with no extra charge.
I've previously done that too. But now it seems that no telcos offer such
good deals.
If you believe that a telco does provide such a good deal then please provide
a reference. Please provide references to support your claims. I've cited my
blog post analysing the current prices, if you aren't willing to do the same
amount of work then please just stop making claims.
I usually buy outright now due to tax reasons. I am
entitled to buy as
part of salary packaging, a phone in my name. The company re-imburses
me the cost of the phone in lieu of salary and claims the phone expense.
I can then claim the phone expense in my personal income tax return;
but I must buy the phone in my own name. Talk to your accountant to see
if it will work out for you.
You can't claim something twice. If the company claims the phone then you
can't claim it.
Generally when
you want any warranty support you need to demonstrate that
it's not something you did.
I still don't subscribe to that theory; if the phone is faulty, it is
faulty. Just about the only way you can damage it [by something you
did] with root access is perhaps frying a radio by increasing it's power
beyond the "normal" level or over clocking the device. Aside from that,
I would expect a manufacturer warranty to be 100% okay even with a
rooted phone. Technically if you use ANY charger not supplied by the
manufacturer, your warranty might be void, but again I see that as an
unfair copout which the manufacturers should not be able to get away with.
2:30 p.m.
On 8/10/2012 1:53 PM, Russell Coker wrote:
I don't know of any specific deals today like that, and I'm not about to
research them either; however, it's been done in the past and it _may_
be an option today. Otherwise, buy a phone outright if you can afford
the amount up front. At the end of the day, it is up to the buyer to
understand the pros and cons of buying whatever way they choose and
weigh it up.
The arguments over grey import vs AU stock is one area that should be
considered and sure, there are differences of opinion as to the worth of
buying either way here.... I am not saying one way is the best way for
everyone, but I am saying that the buyer needs to be aware of the
options and implications.
As I said, talk to your own accountant. Teachers do the same thing with
salary packaging of laptops.
The malfunctioning Galaxy S I posess randomly crashes, when it's not crashing
it works well. The manufacturer would probably claim that the crashes are due
to a bad CyanogenMod image - a bad image could cause exactly what the phone is
doing now. However I had the phone working perfectly for over 6 months before
it started crashing so I know that it's not CyanogenMod at fault, I can't
prove that as there's no way of going back to a stock image.
One of the links I gave you previously will get you to the stock
firmware and you will be able to reflash it and then present the product
for warranty. However, none of the Galaxy S units ever had more than 12
months warranty -- that only started around the release of the S2 models
for Samsung.
When you got that Galaxy S, I am sure that the warranty period had
already expired no matter where it was originally purchased from.
Cheers
A.
On Mon, 8 Oct 2012, Andrew McGlashan
<andrew.mcglashan(a)affinityvision.com.au>
wrote:
Everybody needs to do their own research when buying and take into
account their own circumstances and understand the costs of ownership.
I hate it when a phone plan costs $50 and includes "value" of $700, that
is all false.
Yes, of course, but some plans do work out cheap
IF the phone plan
itself suits otherwise -- you can get a subsidized phone. If you over
buy the phone plan, then yes, you are over buying the phone and the
total minimum commitment is high.
No, some plans used to be cheap. But now the plan prices have increased while
the phone prices haven't. You can win
out with a plan though. I've previously bought a $500 phone
at $20 * 24 months payments with no extra charge.
I've previously done that too. But now it seems that no telcos offer such
good deals. I usually buy
outright now due to tax reasons. I am entitled to buy as
part of salary packaging, a phone in my name. The company re-imburses
me the cost of the phone in lieu of salary and claims the phone expense.
I can then claim the phone expense in my personal income tax return;
but I must buy the phone in my own name. Talk to your accountant to see
if it will work out for you.
You can't claim something twice. If the company claims the phone then you
can't claim it. Generally when you want any warranty support you need
to demonstrate that
it's not something you did.
I still don't subscribe to that theory; if the phone is faulty, it is
faulty. Just about the only way you can damage it [by something you
did] with root access is perhaps frying a radio by increasing it's power
beyond the "normal" level or over clocking the device. Aside from that,
I would expect a manufacturer warranty to be 100% okay even with a
rooted phone. Technically if you use ANY charger not supplied by the
manufacturer, your warranty might be void, but again I see that as an
unfair copout which the manufacturers should not be able to get away with. 
2:35 p.m.
Hi everyone,
Given the wide-range of discussion on this thread, it would be greatly
appreciated if someone would care to put up their hand to give a talk next
month on "Selecting Your Android/Linux phone". :)
Because we really are looking for a speaker, or two...
All the best,
--
Lev Lafayette, mobile: 0432 255 208
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt
5:12 p.m.
> I usually buy outright now due to tax reasons. I
am entitled to buy as
part of salary packaging, a phone in my name. The
company re-imburses
me the cost of the phone in lieu of salary and claims the phone expense.
I can then claim the phone expense in my personal income tax return;
but I must buy the phone in my own name. Talk to your accountant to see
if it will work out for you.
You can't claim something twice. If the company claims the phone then can't claim it.
As I said, talk to your own accountant. Teachers do the same thing with
salary packaging of laptops.
As Russell says, you can't claim something twice. Teachers may well "do
4:56 p.m.
On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 1:53 PM, Russell Coker <russell(a)coker.com.au> wrote:
The malfunctioning Galaxy S I posess randomly crashes, when it's not
crashing
it works well. The manufacturer would probably claim that the crashes are
due
to a bad CyanogenMod image - a bad image could cause exactly what the
phone is
doing now. However I had the phone working perfectly for over 6 months
before
it started crashing so I know that it's not CyanogenMod at fault, I can't
prove that as there's no way of going back to a stock image.
I've got a Galaxy S that I've had for 21 months. I haven't changed the
software on it other than directly from Samsung (I recently updated the
firmware through Samsung Kies) and it's randomly crashed on me, too, only
recently.
Other than that it's a great phone. It's had its niggles but I've generally
been really happy with it.
--
1:02 p.m.
On Mon, 8 Oct 2012, Jason White <jason(a)jasonjgw.net> wrote:
Is it possible to buy a phone that is already unlocked
in this respect
(i.e., open to having new OS images installed by the user)?
The Nexus phones are all unlocked.
Also my experience of the Samsung Galaxy S is that it's quite resiliant and
has usable options for recovery when you do things that would brick some other
embedded devices. I expect that other Samsung products would be similar in
this regard.
--
My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
1:37 p.m.
On 08/10/12 13:02, Russell Coker wrote:
On Mon, 8 Oct 2012, Jason White
<jason(a)jasonjgw.net> wrote:
Not quite - they're easily unlockable, but they're still supplied locked.
Is it possible to buy a phone that is already
unlocked in this respect
(i.e., open to having new OS images installed by the user)?
The Nexus phones are all unlocked.
7 Oct
7 Oct
11:36 p.m.
On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Russell Coker <russell(a)coker.com.au> wrote:
On Sun, 7 Oct 2012, Andrew McGlashan <
andrew.mcglashan(a)affinityvision.com.au>
wrote:
Telstra Network
no problems although haven't tried 4G as yet as I am in a
rural town with no 4G coverage and rarely come in to Melbourne. It
is unbranded and unlocked and now it is rooted therefore negating
my warranty anyway :)
The other concern with non AU stock (grey
imports) is that the software
on the phone itself could be a problem,
That's not a problem if you plan to re-flash the phone yourself.
I have an S3 from Kogan, The software is fine and it works with the
Can you suggest a good Australian supplier who has a price similar to the
$499
for a Galaxy S3 from Kogan?
http://www.mobicity.com.au/phones/smartphones/android.html
Mobicity has the Galaxy S3 for $799 and the Galaxy Nexus for $389. Paying
an
extra $50 for the Galaxy Nexus might be a reasonable investment, but an
extra
$300 for the Galaxy S3 seems like a bad deal.
http://www.mobicity.com.au/samsung-galaxy-s3-i9305-16gb.html
Mobicity's Galaxy S3 supports Telstra LTE. But an extra $300 for the phone
and extra expense for the Telstra network is going to cost too much for
most
people.
Mobicity also sells grey imports the difference is they are not selling
them direct from an office in Hong Kong as Kogan does. Therefore Mobicity
has to charge GST and duty to the customer as the stock is here in
Australia already, the phones from mobicity are exactly the same phone as
Kogan sells, I found this out when I emailed mobicity to query why the S3
they sold had a 12 month warranty when in OS samsung offers 2 years. I was
told that samsung dont do the warranty as it is a grey import. Mobicity may
be better to deal with for a claim the Kogan but I don't know.
Kogan has a registered business presence in China negating the need to
charge GST and Duty as long as the order is under $1000 including postage
All Apple/Samsung etc products sold by kogan are grey imports from china
only the Kogan branded products are kept in stock in Oz
--
My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
_______________________________________________
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--
Mark "Pockets" Clohesy
Mob Phone: (+61) 406 417 877
Email: hiddensoul(a)twistedsouls.com
G-Talk: mark.clohesy(a)gmail.com
-
GNU/Linux..
Linux Counter #457297
"I would love to change the world, but they won't give me the source code"
"Linux is user friendly...its just selective about who its friends are"
"Never underestimate the bandwidth of a V8 station wagon full of tapes
hurtling down the highway"
"The difference between e-mail and regular mail is that computers handle
e-mail, and computers never decide to come to work one day and shoot all
the other computers"
8:02 p.m.
On 7 October 2012 18:54, Andrew McGlashan
<andrew.mcglashan(a)affinityvision.com.au> wrote:
Do you know if the N900 problem was ever fixed with
later batches? I've
seen "brand new" units of these for sale too, but I can only guess that
they must be old stock because I don't think Nokia has made them for
years now. Do you know anything more about the N900's that are
currently being sold as brand new?
Suspect the phone is obsolete now and no longer sold. I haven't checked.
IIRC there were unconfirmed rumours going around that the problem was
fixed in later batches, but no way was given to tell if a particular
phone had the problem or not. So no way to ensure you purchased a good
new phone, and not a bad one that had been in storage for X months.
--
Brian May <brian(a)microcomaustralia.com.au>
8 Oct
8 Oct
2:18 p.m.
Andrew McGlashan wrote:
Get serious, they grey import, you don't get AU
stock, you don't get
AU warranty ... they are far less than no good for "no support at
all".
When you buy something from Kogan, you buy the minimum AU statutory
warranty and then you pay extra, sometimes a lot extra, for what
should be "standard" warranty periods for equipment.
When I buy something and it goes tits-up, the amount of grief to get a
warranty honoured by ANYONE is enough that I will usually just buy
another unit and throw the old one away.
Granted, most people don't ever reach my levels of misanthropy, but
for people like me paying 20% less for the same item in exchange for
not dealing with sales or warranty people, doesn't really have a
downside.
Case in point: I got new glasses last week, and my insurance is
supposed to cover it, but the swipe card didn't swipe so I paid the
~$150 out of pocket. That paltry sum is not worth me sitting on hold
or whatever it will take. I suppose I would it if was $5000, but I've
never bought anything that expensive.
2:27 p.m.
Trent W. Buck <trentbuck(a)gmail.com> wrote:
When I buy something and it goes tits-up, the amount
of grief to get a
warranty honoured by ANYONE is enough that I will usually just buy
another unit and throw the old one away.
Granted, most people don't ever reach my levels of misanthropy, but
for people like me paying 20% less for the same item in exchange for
not dealing with sales or warranty people, doesn't really have a
downside.
If the hardware fails while I am, for example, living overseas, does the local
subsidiary of the manufacturer typically honour the Australian warranty or
does the product have to be sent back to Australia for service? The latter
would obviously be time-consuming and expensive (air freight in both
directions would cost... it might turn out to be cheaper to buy a new device
in that case).
2:40 p.m.
On 8/10/2012 2:27 PM, Jason White wrote:
If the hardware fails while I am, for example, living
overseas, does the local
subsidiary of the manufacturer typically honour the Australian warranty or
does the product have to be sent back to Australia for service? The latter
would obviously be time-consuming and expensive (air freight in both
directions would cost... it might turn out to be cheaper to buy a new device
in that case).
There are all sorts of reasons why following up on warranty might be a
pain or too expensive (money and/or time) to worry about. But if a
manufacturer offers longer warranty then it is often an indication of
greater faith in their own products which translates into greater
confidence for the buyer. With a lot of equipment, a failure from a
manufacturing fault will rear it's head quickly, sometimes not so; now
with flash drives and the like, limited lifetime screens and other parts
that just simply wear out.... well longer warranties can offer some
peace of mind, but nothing will last forever.
I too can't be bothered following up on warranty for some things due to
all the hassle, time and money involved -- but it's always nice to keep
that option open.
Sometimes it really is worth going to the trouble for warranty repairs
and often times you'll get a brand new replacement -- I am talking
generally here, that is not just about phones.
Cheers
A.
2:50 p.m.
Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan(a)affinityvision.com.au> wrote:
Sometimes it really is worth going to the trouble for
warranty repairs
and often times you'll get a brand new replacement -- I am talking
generally here, that is not just about phones.
I find the support contracts that come with workstations and certain other
hardware to be useful - on-site replacement of components within one or two
business days. I think this is available for some laptops as well and it
definitely saves time/money/effort.
2:53 p.m.
On Mon, 8 Oct 2012, Jason White <jason(a)jasonjgw.net> wrote:
If the hardware fails while I am, for example, living
overseas, does the
local subsidiary of the manufacturer typically honour the Australian
warranty or does the product have to be sent back to Australia for
service? The latter would obviously be time-consuming and expensive (air
freight in both directions would cost... it might turn out to be cheaper
to buy a new device in that case).
In most cases warranty only covers the same country. For cases where the
warranty is international (as IBM always did with Thinkpads and Lenovo used to
do - not sure if they still do) then you can buy in any country and use in any
country. I've bought a Thinkpad from the US and then got warranty support in
Europe and Australia without any difficulty. IBM never even asked for a
receipt if the manufacture date indicated that it was within warranty.
If Samsung offers the same level of warranty support then Andrew's arguments
against grey-market devices are all void. If Samsung doesn't offer the same
level of support then if you plan to travel then the warranty is useless
anyway.
--
My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
3:22 p.m.
On 8/10/2012 2:53 PM, Russell Coker wrote:
In most cases warranty only covers the same country.
For cases where the
warranty is international (as IBM always did with Thinkpads and Lenovo used to
do - not sure if they still do) then you can buy in any country and use in any
country. I've bought a Thinkpad from the US and then got warranty support in
Europe and Australia without any difficulty. IBM never even asked for a
receipt if the manufacture date indicated that it was within warranty.
Yes, IBM warranties were great. I also got a lot out of Dell warranty
with onsite visits (too) many times....
If Samsung offers the same level of warranty support
then Andrew's arguments
against grey-market devices are all void. If Samsung doesn't offer the same
level of support then if you plan to travel then the warranty is useless
anyway.
Well, I am not Samsung, but I'm sure any problems can be sorted out when
you get home IF there is nothing supporting you overseas (which may or
may not be possible -- talk to Samsung).
Cheers
A.
3826
days inactive
3828
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37 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
Andrew McGlashan -
Brian May -
Hiddensoul (Mark Clohesy) -
Jason White -
Lev Lafayette -
Michael Scott -
Paul Dwerryhouse -
Russell Coker -
Trent W. Buck