On Fri, 31 Jan 2014, Russell Coker wrote: Australia's private school system breeds Australian politicians who run the country. It should be abolished immediately to prevent further damage Peter

On 31/01/2014 6:45 PM, Peter wrote: You make the person *before* they start school, show me a 6 year old and I'll show you a 42 yo.... or something like that. Sure, schools matter, but the family environment / situation matters more to make a "type of" person ... for better or worse. Cheers A.

Regarding restaurants and healthy food. This analogy could be taken as a reason for home schooling, healthier just like home cooked food. Regarding class size, I think that to a large extent the best class size is determined by the skill of the teacher. Some teachers are simply incapable of keeping order in a class of more than 8 or 10 students. Others can keep order and usefully teach 50 students. Regarding the violence in schools. The easiest way to improve things would be to make every teacher sit the PCL-R test. There's probably only a few psychopath teachers in each school (I know of two at the high school I attended) but it's enough to make a huge difference. Another easy way of improving the school system would be to expell the students who have no hope of passing year 12 when they are 14 and make them work at McDonald's. -- Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2 with K-9 Mail.

On Sat, 1 Feb 2014 19:38:31 Bianca Gibson wrote: It wouldn't be fair. But the current situation of having such students hang out in class, not learn much, become bullies (if they are big enough, become victims otherwise), and have a high chance of ending up in the prison system is much less fair. It's an example. Any other employer would do. Some kids who do that would return to school the next year determine to study as hard as necessary to avoid a career at McDonalds, that would be a good thing. But the ones who just leave school and never return would be better off doing so at age 14 and cause less harm to those who stay at school. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/

I had to LOL at the last sentence. Apart from that I really couldn't find a reason to disagree with everything Russell says. The difference between a class size of 20 and 40 probably depends on the ability of the teacher to maintain discipline in a class, until it comes to one on one tutoring. That will depend on the students...not on the class size. On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 3:24 PM, Russell Coker <russell(a)coker.com.au> wrote:

On 01/02/14 20:14, Faye Coker wrote: There is another way to deal with the student-teacher ratio and classroom management issues and get more opportunity to work individually with kids to some extent at the same time. That is something I have personal experience of (btw: I have worked as a secondary School teacher for a few years about 10 yrs ago). The school (State) I worked at was trialling team teaching: ie 2 classes combined with the 2 teachers in the classroom at the same time. It did require specially setup rooms capable of holding 2 classes. What it meant was that 1 teacher could focus on delivering the curriculum material to the class as a whole, while the other would focus on the classroom management stuff and also could provide 1-1 interaction to some extent. It meant that the curriculum delivery was less interrupted by other classroom activities, And the teachers would swap over the roles. I think you could probably increase the student-teacher ratio at the same time. 2 teachers in the same room with twice the number of students are more effective that 2 teachers in 2 separate classrooms with 1/2 the number of students each! It does require that teachers are actually willing to do that. In my particular case I was very keen to do that. But the teacher I was paired with was not so keen. Some teachers for what ever reason do not like it. I don't know what happened to the trial as I left the school (and teaching all together). My guess is that given the issue of teachers' willingness to participate and the room size issue, I doubt that any further progress was made. Cheers Daniel.

Lectures are only ONE type of learning, they can't substitute schools.

Russell Coker wrote: At the same time, don't assume just forcing every student to "lease" an iPad will magically improve outcomes. :-P

On Sat, 1 Feb 2014, Tim Long wrote: Which isn't surprising.. Go through all stuff Liberal does - you will find they benefit "well-off people" and hurt the rest. I don't know why it is so impolite to talk about "class wars" - they are still on. Over the last 20 years Australia was lucky to have an unprecented mining boom so there was a "trickle down" effect for most. God or whoever help Australia when this luck runs otut. Government and people seem to be very unprepared. I was pretty sure Abbott's time will be "wasted time" because it does not address any progress in economics. You can squeeze few per cent profit by union bashing but it does not help to steer Australia away from the reliance on two industries (mining and agriculture) which makes us so exposed to the volatility of the world's economy. We cannot effort a few million here and there and you need to pay more money to see a GP - but we have to support a high-profit mining industry with billion dollar fuel subsidizes. I am pretty sure the Rinehards and Palmers will survive the recession.. and that's what Abbott cares for. We have our home grown Tea Party here. Regards Peter

On 1/02/2014 3:24 PM, Russell Coker wrote: True. Don't disregard that in a group of people (kids in this case), each has there own set of skills that are complimentary to others in the group. When one or more of the group is down on a subject, then there are one or more in the group whom could work with them and bring them up to the standard (without any direct teacher involvement). And given that the skills vary per topic, if the group is large enough, then the reciprocal can work for those helpers to become the helpees. That seems to be quite an obsession of yours, perhaps you should seek counseling over it. Everyone develops different skills at different rates. I had a best friend during primary and secondary school whom was a couple of years ahead of me when it comes to physical activity (read I was an uncoordinated kid), but that come together, just not quite as quickly as my friend (by about 2 years). Naturally I had other attributes that were ahead of my friend. We helped each other's weaknesses and we are both doing okay today -- no teacher was involved in any kind of one-on-one for either of us at any time. You cannot know for sure that a 14 year old that is behind the others is not going to make it later. Sometimes it is a matter of the light suddenly turning on and that can happen at a different age and then that kid goes forward in leaps and bounds. You can't just say, you're dumb, get out of here! Another problem with today's schools is that they they pass every student almost every year, when some students need to be held back at least once to help them get up to speed and not to be forever behind everybody else. Teachers are required to make it a priority, in order to give the school "a good reputation", to provide specific training towards getting excellent NAPLAN results and identifying students for exclusion if those students won't benefit this cause. That is, they teach how to do NAPLAN, but not so much in other areas of the curriculum that are not so heavily judged and therefore won't reflect on the teachers or the school itself!!!!! Cheers A.

On 2/02/2014 10:03 AM, Bianca Gibson wrote: Yes, but NAPLAN is seasonal too, so it doesn't happen all year round, although those teachers that do prioritize for NAPLAN, well that seems to be the be all and end of at that time. Cheers A.

On 4/02/2014 2:55 PM, Russell Coker wrote: No, if it means less teachers, then that government sponsored business might need to embrace other options. Seriously, I know schools need funding. Absolutely it would allow for better utilization of teachers, perhaps those that are left [due to a reduction, not complete removal], will possibly have the benefit of better pay and there would be more incentive for better teachers to want to be there instead of elsewhere which might be more lucrative to them. Students will also greatly benefit from peer learning, it develops the both the helper and the helpee and it can significantly reduce teacher workloads without a need for a significant reduction in class sizes. You've blogged, so that's all the answer there is? Why Pirate bay? Would that be illegal content in this case? Perhaps this is a better option: http://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/kid-nation/episodes-season-1/288040 Become a politician if you think YOU have all the answers.... I won't vote for you, but good luck. Perhaps, perhaps not. There is a complete disconnect when you leave school and for many there is no going back. It's not a prison sentence, gee, you really highlight how you hate school so much more than many kids today that WANT an eduction. You really do seem very scarred from *your* self-diagnosed psychopath teachers, both of them -- are you a mental health expert too, also an expert at everything else as well .. ;-) ??? There are other opinions. Cheers A.

On 5/02/2014 12:46 AM, Russell Coker wrote: Not necessarily, it depends on the will of the kids and their maturity as well as the strength of leadership of the teacher. Cheers A. So, it is illegal then... breaking copyright restrictions is currently illegal -- not likely to change for the better any time soon I would think. I didn't look too hard, but if that's the case, then I agree with you. Sometimes there are better options that don't violate the law. Maybe, maybe not. That need not be the case..... would hate to generalize too much. Hahaha, I don't think so. Cheers A.

Russell Coker wrote: Or, you know, put them into apprenticeships. If they still exist. http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2010/10/sheepskin.html I'm all for having an educated population, but you don't need to take matriculation to be a contributing member of society. Roles exist (or did) other than "undergraduate" and "McDonalds employee".

On 1 February 2014 13:08, Rohan McLeod <rhn(a)jeack.com.au> wrote: My Mum's a teacher and was talking about this the other day. They are told that class size isn't significant, but that time spent individually with each student is. They will obviously spend less individual time with each student if they have a big class. Bianca

Bianca Gibson wrote: I agree the conclusion is far from intuitive; also it must be noticed the conclusion is statistical. Apparently one study in California, seemed to show 'success' measured as % going on to university, had little correlation with class size difference, from memory this was for class sizes 20 - 30 . Perhaps the even more confronting conclusion, again statistical was that 'success' was correlated to 'teacher quality' and surprisingly this had little to do with qualifications ! regards Rohan McLeod

On 31 January 2014 15:21, Andrew McGlashan < andrew.mcglashan(a)affinityvision.com.au&gt; wrote: I heard a parent say she was going to send her son to a private school so she *feels* that she has provided the best for him, that she's done all she can. Not because she actually thought it would be better for him. Bianca

On 6/02/2014 9:05 PM, Carl Turney wrote: Well put! To digress, that's true of many non-technical discussions here. Worse, certain members (one in particular) determines your opinion without bothering to read your post and then responds to his own imagination. It's fascinating how someone can be intelligent, brilliant even, and a complete bonehead at the same time. Regards, Anders.

On 7 February 2014 11:51, Russell Coker &lt;russell(a)coker.com.au&gt; wrote: When I was in school, I had to pay for the instrument myself (outright or rent). I think this was the same for both types of schools. IIRC (my memory is fuzzy on this detail) I had to pay extra for lessons too - again I think this was the same for both types of schools. The school orchestra didn't cost the (government) school a lot (music stands is the only cost I can think of right now). It did require a lot of dedication in the music teacher/conductor involved however, and it wouldn't surprise me if I found the orchestra disappeared when he left the school. -- Brian May &lt;brian(a)microcomaustralia.com.au&gt;

On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Russell Coker &lt;russell(a)coker.com.au&gt; wrote: <snip> Drouin Secondary has its own pool public school in a semi rural area (rapidly becoming an outer suburb of melbourne) my son goes there Yes Neerim South Regional has its own car for student drivers to learn in my other son went there but did not learn to drive as he is special needs which was the reason we travelled to a more distant school then Drouin secondary as class sizes are smaller as is the total school population allowing easier integration in to the school, he also had a full time personal aide funded by the education dept -- Mark "Pockets" Clohesy Mob Phone: (+61) 406 417 877 Email: hiddensoul(a)twistedsouls.com G-Talk: mark.clohesy(a)gmail.com GNU/Linux..Linux Counter #457297 - "I would love to change the world, but they won't give me the source code" "Linux is user friendly...its just selective about who its friends are"