Assembled Illuminati; some very naive IP network questions;understanding seems to come very slowly to me; but I am very 'nosy'.! Background: I have an iPrimus ADSL 2Plus account providing an internet connection via a DSL-502T router , accessible via ether USB or Ethernet cable; which is still functioning ! I had an iPrimus 'NBN Co First Release Trial' account providing an internet connection via a Linksys 2000; accessible via Ethernet or wireless; internet access is currently blocked, pending the replacement of the ADSL account with a NBN-Fibre account. Details of the latter: $66/month bundled internet and phone, VOIP local,STD included; mobile at $0.30/ min no flagfall; 15GB/ month cap , 25 Mb/s down 10 Mb/s up; Realistically I'm expecting about 1.25MB/s down ! which is still an improvement on my ADSL; which is only 0.150 MB/s on a good day. . Questions : 1/ The DSL-502T has a web interface at 10.1.1.1 and a 'system' interface at 10.1.1.1 using Putty; the Linksys 2000 has a web interface at 192.168.1.1 but no system interface at 192.168.1.1; why is that ? 2/ I take it that 10.1.1.1 and 192.168.1.1 are the local IP addresses ; other wise I would be accessing everyone else's routers ?...the mist clears very slowly ! 3/ Would the NBN Network Terminating Device which appears to be a fibre-optic router m/n 1-240G-R ;which has an Ethernet connection to the Linksys 2000 have a local IP address ?; talking to the cable tech's who installed the NTD it would seem to have an external IP address; any way to determine this ? Please feel free to correct me if the questions are 'wrong'; regards Rohan McLeod
On 10 October 2011 10:53, Rohan McLeod <rhn@jeack.com.au> wrote:
1/ The DSL-502T has a web interface at 10.1.1.1 and a 'system' interface at 10.1.1.1 using Putty; the Linksys 2000 has a web interface at 192.168.1.1 but no system interface at 192.168.1.1; why is that ?
Different firmware installed on the different systems; it sounds like the Linksys doesn't have ssh support. The different firmware will have different default IP address ranges (which should be configurable).
2/ I take it that 10.1.1.1 and 192.168.1.1 are the local IP addresses ; other wise I would be accessing everyone else's routers ?...the mist clears very slowly !
Yes, these are private address ranges that are not routable on the Internet.
3/ Would the NBN Network Terminating Device which appears to be a fibre-optic router m/n 1-240G-R ;which has an Ethernet connection to the Linksys 2000 have a local IP address ?; talking to the cable tech's who installed the NTD it would seem to have an external IP address; any way to determine this ?
I don't have a NBN connection myself, so I can't verify the details, however I believe the NBN appears as an (long) Ethernet connection all the way to your ISP and as such your terminator has no IP address. I also believe that the terminator is entirely owned by NBN and as such NBN are fully responsible for its configuration. -- Brian May <brian@microcomaustralia.com.au>
Brian May wrote:
On 10 October 2011 10:53, Rohan McLeod<rhn@jeack.com.au> wrote:
3/ Would the NBN Network Terminating Device which appears to be a fibre-optic router m/n 1-240G-R ;which has an Ethernet connection to the Linksys 2000 have a local IP address ?; talking to the cable tech's who installed the NTD it would seem to have an external IP address; any way to determine this ?
I don't have a NBN connection myself, so I can't verify the details, however I believe the NBN appears as an (long) Ethernet connection all the way to your ISP and as such your terminator has no IP address.
1/Can you elaborate on what is meant by : " (long) Ethernet connection all the way to your ISP and as such your terminator has no IP address." ? 2/ Does this mean no local(on my LAN) or public internet IP ? 3/ Does this mean it's only IP address is as a local device on the ISP's LAN ?
I also believe that the terminator is entirely owned by NBN and as such NBN are fully responsible for its configuration.
..... is this code for 'keeping grubby user-hands off !' Brian thanks for your prompt reply regards Rohan McLeod
I think you might getting confused here. The building blocks are just the same for a typical ADSL connection. With ADSL you would have: Ethernet switch <---> Ethernet router <---> terminator <---> network <----> ISP (where terminator is just the plug on the wall) With NBN you would typically have: Ethernet switch <---> ADSL router <---> NBN terminator <---> network <----> ISP (where terminator is a bit more fancy) Typically your switch/router might be one box that has both functions combined. You plug all your computers in the the switch. The switch being just a switch has no IP address. The switch connects to your router. The router, would typically hand out private IP addresses (using DHCP) to all your computers. The router itself would obtain a public IPv4 address from your ISP using PPP (ADSL case) or DHCP (NBN case). It in turn would masquerade the private IP addresses to the public IP address for all external access. Ideally you would get more then one public IPv4 address from your ISP, and this would help use certain protocols that don't work well with masquerading. However this will cost extra (same as for ADSL). NBN isn't a solution to the running out of IPv4 address space problem. You need IPv6 to solve that. Does this help? -- Brian May <brian@microcomaustralia.com.au>
Brian May wrote:
I think you might getting confused here. The building blocks are just the same for a typical ADSL connection.
Yes , thanks for persevering !
With NBN you would typically have:
Ethernet switch<---> ADSL router<---> NBN terminator<---> network<----> ISP
(where terminator is a bit more fancy)
Just two more dumb questions regarding the' NBN situation' , if I may : 1/ the 'ADSL router ' connects to the NBN terminator via Ethernet; is it actually ADSL ; I thought ADSL was a phone-line technology ? 2/ It seems as though the NBN terminator can be accessed by NBN/ isp somehow; you previously described this as : " NBN appears as an (long) Ethernet connection all the way to your ISP " can you elaborate on this at all because, with the help off the explanations above and below; I am certainly much clearer regarding 'public' and 'local' IP addresses thanks muchly Rohan McLeod
On 11/10/11 16:15, Rohan McLeod wrote:
Brian May wrote:
I think you might getting confused here. The building blocks are just the same for a typical ADSL connection.
Yes , thanks for persevering !
With NBN you would typically have:
Ethernet switch<---> ADSL router<---> NBN terminator<---> network<----> ISP
(where terminator is a bit more fancy)
Just two more dumb questions regarding the' NBN situation' , if I may : 1/ the 'ADSL router ' connects to the NBN terminator via Ethernet; is it actually ADSL ; I thought ADSL was a phone-line technology ? 2/ It seems as though the NBN terminator can be accessed by NBN/ isp somehow;
I think Brian just got his (ASCII) diagrams round the wrong way.
you previously described this as : " NBN appears as an (long) Ethernet connection all the way to your ISP "
That's actually a very accurate description. ADSL in most other countries, and DOCSIS (Cable) networks globally run the same way. You treat the access network (ADSL, PON, DOCSIS) as though it were an Ethernet (in the classical abstract protocol sense) and just use DHCP to get your IPv4, and RA+DHCPv6+DHCP-PD to get your IPv6 address and subnet(s). The NBN OLT (box in your house/apartment) is largely the same as an ADSL modem or DOCSIS cable modem, with some extra tricks like some QoS controls, a two port SIP ATA for analog phones, and four client ports that are individually addressable.
Julien Goodwin <luv-lists@studio442.com.au> wrote:
The NBN OLT (box in your house/apartment) is largely the same as an ADSL modem or DOCSIS cable modem, with some extra tricks like some QoS controls, a two port SIP ATA for analog phones, and four client ports that are individually addressable.
Can the customer access any of the configuration options, e.g., for the SIP connection, or does it all have to be done by the ISP?
On 11/10/11 17:24, Jason White wrote:
Julien Goodwin <luv-lists@studio442.com.au> wrote:
The NBN OLT (box in your house/apartment) is largely the same as an ADSL modem or DOCSIS cable modem, with some extra tricks like some QoS controls, a two port SIP ATA for analog phones, and four client ports that are individually addressable.
Can the customer access any of the configuration options, e.g., for the SIP connection, or does it all have to be done by the ISP?
It's all NBNco, the ISP can only request settings for the ports they've purchased, and the end user has no control. That also assumes that the ISP you're buying service off is actually the "RSP" from NBN's point of view, for anything but the top half-dozen ISP's it'll all be wholesaled through the existing names (likely wholesalers are PIPE (TPG), NextGen, Optus, AAPT (iiNet) & Telstra)
On 11 October 2011 17:12, Julien Goodwin <luv-lists@studio442.com.au> wrote:
I think Brian just got his (ASCII) diagrams round the wrong way.
Whoops. Yes you are right. I think I initially had ADSL below NBN, and swapped them on screen, but forgot to swap them in my brain :-). Retry: With ADSL you would have: Ethernet switch <---> ADSL router <---> terminator <---> network <----> ISP (where terminator is just the plug on the wall) With NBN you would typically have: Ethernet switch <---> Ethernet router <---> NBN terminator <---> network <----> ISP (where terminator is a bit more fancy) There is no ADSL involved in NBN. -- Brian May <brian@microcomaustralia.com.au>
Brian May wrote:
On 11 October 2011 17:12, Julien Goodwin<luv-lists@studio442.com.au> wrote:
I think Brian just got his (ASCII) diagrams round the wrong way.
With NBN you would typically have:
Ethernet switch<---> Ethernet router<---> NBN terminator<---> network<----> ISP
(where terminator is a bit more fancy)
There is no ADSL involved in NBN.
Many thanks Brian, this just leaves my final question: 2/ It seems as though the NBN terminator can be accessed by NBN/ isp somehow;you previously described this as : " NBN appears as an (long) Ethernet connection all the way to your ISP " .....can you elaborate on this at all? Regards Rohan McLeod
Hi,
2/ It seems as though the NBN terminator can be accessed by NBN/ isp somehow;you previously described this as : " NBN appears as an (long) Ethernet connection all the way to your ISP " .....can you elaborate on this at all?
The NBN CPE/Terminator equipment is remotely managed by the NBN. The fact that connections between you and your provider are going over fibre and there's all sorts of multiplexing etc. going on is not something you or your provider worry about - it's fully managed by the NBN. Eg. The NBN box/CPE/NTD provides a fully managed tunnel through which you choose with your provider what goes over it. If you were to get an internet connection from an ISP, and you wanted to share this with several computers, you'd still use a router of some sort (the same way you'd set up a cable modem connection these days) and plug this into the NBN box. Think of the NBN box as providing 4 ethernet and 2 phone line extension leads between you and your chosen providers (correct me if I'm wrong people.. I vaguely recall 4/2 port config in spec).. The service provider etc. cannot see anything outside of the services they provide to you on it.. they just plug their end of the virtual extension lead into their equipment as you do into yours.
Anthony <anthony-luv@hogan.id.au> wrote:
Think of the NBN box as providing 4 ethernet and 2 phone line extension leads between you and your chosen providers (correct me if I'm wrong people.. I vaguely recall 4/2 port config in spec)..
As I understand it, the IPv4/IPv6 networking is entirely the responsbility of the provider, who presumably get MAC addresses of some kind corresponding to your Ethernet ports.
Anthony wrote:
Hi,
2/ It seems as though the NBN terminator can be accessed by NBN/ isp somehow;you previously described this as : " NBN appears as an (long) Ethernet connection all the way to your ISP " .....can you elaborate on this at all?
The NBN CPE/Terminator equipment is remotely managed by the NBN.
The fact that connections between you and your provider are going over fibre and there's all sorts of multiplexing etc. going on is not something you or your provider worry about - it's fully managed by the NBN.
Interestingly (at least to me ) the external optical-fibre cable which terminates in a road-side box some 400m away, appears to continue from that box to the Brunswick exchange; that is, it is not multiplexed with the other 168 lines but simply 'gathered' into a cable with 168 fibres.
Eg. The NBN box/CPE/NTD provides a fully managed tunnel through which you choose with your provider what goes over it.
Yes
If you were to get an internet connection from an ISP, and you wanted to share this with several computers, you'd still use a router of some sort (the same way you'd set up a cable modem connection these days) and plug this into the NBN box.
Yes, there is currently a Linksys E2000 plugged into Ethernet port 1 on the 'NBN box'
Think of the NBN box as providing 4 ethernet and 2 phone line extension leads between you and your chosen providers (correct me if I'm wrong people.. I vaguely recall 4/2 port config in spec)..
My understanding from NBN via iPrimus tech. support, is that each of those 4 Ethernet ports, can be allocated to separate ISP's
The service provider etc. cannot see anything outside of the services they provide to you on it.. they just plug their end of the virtual extension lead into their equipment as you do into yours.
The question which I am asking ( without much success) is : If the NBN box has no global IP address and no local (to me) IP address; does it have an IP address local to NBN and/ or my ISP ? if not how is it 'addressed' by them for the purpose of ROM upgrades and connecting/ disconnecting it. The latter I know they can do; because iPrimus support eventually realised, that this was why my new "Home Fibre Starter Plus" was not working. thanks Brian , Anthony and Jason ....just this one last thing apologies if I appear somewhat obtuse (probably am ) regards Rohan Mcleod
On 12/10/2011, at 14:04, Rohan McLeod <rhn@jeack.com.au> wrote:
If the NBN box has no global IP address and no local (to me) IP address; does it have an IP address local to NBN and/ or my ISP ? if not how is it 'addressed' by them for the purpose of ROM upgrades and connecting/ disconnecting it. The latter I know they can do; because iPrimus support eventually realised, that this was why my new "Home Fibre Starter Plus" was not working.
http://sites.google.com/site/amitsciscozone/home/gpon/gpon-fundamentals the nbn termination unit at your house would have an ONU Identifier (ONU-ID) that can be addressed by the nbn infrastructure. this is entirely independent of the IP routing and IP addresses handled by your modem/router and ISP
hannah commodore wrote:
On 12/10/2011, at 14:04, Rohan McLeod<rhn@jeack.com.au> wrote:
If the NBN box has no global IP address and no local (to me) IP address; does it have an IP address local to NBN and/ or my ISP ? if not how is it 'addressed' by them for the purpose of ROM upgrades and connecting/ disconnecting it. The latter I know they can do; because iPrimus support eventually realised, that this was why my new "Home Fibre Starter Plus" was not working.
http://sites.google.com/site/amitsciscozone/home/gpon/gpon-fundamentals
Many thanks Hannah this what I wanted to know !; I wasn't asking the question correctly; but unfortunately , I couldn't ask it correctly till I knew the answer.
the nbn termination unit at your house would have an ONU Identifier (ONU-ID) that can be addressed by the nbn infrastructure. this is entirely independent of the IP routing and IP addresses handled by your modem/router and ISP
and Yes I am quite clear that: "this is entirely independent of the IP routing and IP addresses handled by your modem/router and ISP " all questions are now answered, thanks to Brian , Anthony, Jason and Hannah; regards Rohan McLeod
participants (6)
-
Anthony -
Brian May -
hannah commodore -
Jason White -
Julien Goodwin -
Rohan McLeod