Hello, Just wondering what is considered a good 3D printer? Should work from Linux, and even better work with open source software. I seem to be bewildered by the large set of options, eg: https://3dprintersuperstore.com.au/collections/frontpage Regards -- Brian May <brian@linuxpenguins.xyz> https://linuxpenguins.xyz/brian/
Hi, Any 3d printer will work. Most printers you use a slicer like cura, slic3r which work on linux and write them to SD card, otherwise Cura can talk to most 3d printers which is a USB Serial link to pass the GCode commands. There are also lots of Chinese made 3d printers which are really good, these guys you are talking about have the pricer printers. Places like GearBest or Banggood have a wide range or printers, such as the Creality3D CR - 10 3D Desktop DIY Printer http://www.gearbest.com/3d-printers-3d-printer-kits/pp_441282.html <http://www.gearbest.com/3d-printers-3d-printer-kits/pp_441282.html> which is getting good reviews lately. I have just ordered a new printer, the Original Prusa i3 MK2S http://shop.prusa3d.com/en/3d-printers/59-original-prusa-i3-mk2-kit.html <http://shop.prusa3d.com/en/3d-printers/59-original-prusa-i3-mk2-kit.html> which is the printer all i3 style printers have copied. But this is a bit more. It cost me about $AUD1000 shipped. But in the end it really depends on what you want to do it. If you want it as a tool, then you should be running $2000-2500 for a printer which will just work. However if this is just a hobby and don’t mind tinkering then a $300-600 printer will be fine. Gordon.
On 7 Aug 2017, at 4:11 pm, Brian May via luv-talk <luv-talk@luv.asn.au> wrote:
Hello,
Just wondering what is considered a good 3D printer? Should work from Linux, and even better work with open source software.
I seem to be bewildered by the large set of options, eg:
https://3dprintersuperstore.com.au/collections/frontpage
Regards -- Brian May <brian@linuxpenguins.xyz> https://linuxpenguins.xyz/brian/ _______________________________________________ luv-talk mailing list luv-talk@luv.asn.au https://lists.luv.asn.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/luv-talk
Gordon Heydon <gordon@heydon.com.au> writes:
There are also lots of Chinese made 3d printers which are really good, these guys you are talking about have the pricer printers. Places like GearBest or Banggood have a wide range or printers, such as the Creality3D CR - 10 3D Desktop DIY Printer http://www.gearbest.com/3d-printers-3d-printer-kits/pp_441282.html <http://www.gearbest.com/3d-printers-3d-printer-kits/pp_441282.html> which is getting good reviews lately. I have just ordered a new printer, the Original Prusa i3 MK2S http://shop.prusa3d.com/en/3d-printers/59-original-prusa-i3-mk2-kit.html <http://shop.prusa3d.com/en/3d-printers/59-original-prusa-i3-mk2-kit.html> which is the printer all i3 style printers have copied. But this is a bit more. It cost me about $AUD1000 shipped.
So is it better to purchase them overseas rather then locally? -- Brian May <brian@linuxpenguins.xyz> https://linuxpenguins.xyz/brian/
As I said I all depends on what your end goal is. It you want to use it as a tool, then you most likely would buy locally and spend more money. If it is just a hobby then getting one from China will cost you a lot less but will require a lot more work to make it print well. Another couple of brands which which have good printers are Tevo, and Wanhao. These are both clones of the Prusa i3, and the Wanhao is actually the printer which was sold from Aldi for the last couple of years. These Chinese printers, and even the Prusa I3 MK2S (depending on if you buy a kit) will require some assemble. Also most of these printers are based upon an Arduino Mega. Gordon.
On 7 Aug 2017, at 6:39 pm, Brian May <brian@linuxpenguins.xyz> wrote:
Gordon Heydon <gordon@heydon.com.au> writes:
There are also lots of Chinese made 3d printers which are really good, these guys you are talking about have the pricer printers. Places like GearBest or Banggood have a wide range or printers, such as the Creality3D CR - 10 3D Desktop DIY Printer http://www.gearbest.com/3d-printers-3d-printer-kits/pp_441282.html <http://www.gearbest.com/3d-printers-3d-printer-kits/pp_441282.html> which is getting good reviews lately. I have just ordered a new printer, the Original Prusa i3 MK2S http://shop.prusa3d.com/en/3d-printers/59-original-prusa-i3-mk2-kit.html <http://shop.prusa3d.com/en/3d-printers/59-original-prusa-i3-mk2-kit.html> which is the printer all i3 style printers have copied. But this is a bit more. It cost me about $AUD1000 shipped.
So is it better to purchase them overseas rather then locally? -- Brian May <brian@linuxpenguins.xyz> https://linuxpenguins.xyz/brian/
Gordon Heydon <gordon@heydon.com.au> writes:
It you want to use it as a tool, then you most likely would buy locally and spend more money. If it is just a hobby then getting one from China will cost you a lot less but will require a lot more work to make it print well.
How much more work is required? How much work is required to build and callibrate from a kit? -- Brian May <brian@linuxpenguins.xyz> https://linuxpenguins.xyz/brian/
Brian May <brian@linuxpenguins.xyz> writes:
How much more work is required?
How much work is required to build and callibrate from a kit?
Also do you have any recommendations where to purchase materials or what type? -- Brian May <brian@linuxpenguins.xyz> https://linuxpenguins.xyz/brian/
I recommend locally. (Inside Australia) as postage really hurts when you are punching 1kg spools. I have been purchasing from Hobbyking lately, esp the eSun filament which I always find good.
On 7 Aug 2017, at 7:52 pm, Brian May <brian@linuxpenguins.xyz> wrote:
Brian May <brian@linuxpenguins.xyz> writes:
How much more work is required?
How much work is required to build and callibrate from a kit?
Also do you have any recommendations where to purchase materials or what type? -- Brian May <brian@linuxpenguins.xyz> https://linuxpenguins.xyz/brian/
Well it all depends on the printer. I have done a lot of investigation on the Prusa i3 MK2S which is my second printer. The kit takes about 6 hours to assemble, But it should not take as long to calibrate since it has mesh bed levelling and built in methods to check the if the Y frame is skewed and also has a simple method of checking your X Axis is 90 degrees to the Y Axis. The Tevo Tarantula is built with extruded aluminium so getting it all square is a lot easier, But this is a full kit like the Prusa, The Wanhao Duplicator i3 is a box metal construction and the build time is a lot less 20-30 minutes if you go slow. Calibration of the printer is an on going thing, and depends on a lot of different variables, type of filament, area the printer is working in, and these are things you are going to learn as you get to know your printer. As well as how good the object you are printing is, and if it is designed for FDM printing. Hopefully that helps. Gordon.
On 7 Aug 2017, at 7:40 pm, Brian May <brian@linuxpenguins.xyz> wrote:
Gordon Heydon <gordon@heydon.com.au> writes:
It you want to use it as a tool, then you most likely would buy locally and spend more money. If it is just a hobby then getting one from China will cost you a lot less but will require a lot more work to make it print well.
How much more work is required?
How much work is required to build and callibrate from a kit? -- Brian May <brian@linuxpenguins.xyz> https://linuxpenguins.xyz/brian/
On 07/08/17 16:23, Gordon Heydon via luv-talk wrote:
There are also lots of Chinese made 3d printers which are really good, these guys you are talking about have the pricer printers. Places like GearBest or Banggood have a wide range or printers, such as the Creality3D CR - 10 3D Desktop DIY Printer http://www.gearbest.com/3d-printers-3d-printer-kits/pp_441282.html which is getting good reviews lately. I have just ordered a new printer, the Original Prusa i3 MK2S http://shop.prusa3d.com/en/3d-printers/59-original-prusa-i3-mk2-kit.html which is the printer all i3 style printers have copied. But this is a bit more. It cost me about $AUD1000 shipped.
I just put together a new Prusa i3 Mk2s on the weekend and I'm incredibly happy, with no tweaking at all it's already delivering amazing prints, I think it was below AU$900 delivered. The Wanho Duplicator which is a clone of an earlier Prusa is one a few folk at $WORK have which is much cheaper. I wouldn't buy either if you don't want to spend time tweaking, I'm not really sure there's anything out the in the consumer-ish space that works without tweaking.
Hi, I just got shocked and received my shipping tracking no. I only ordered it last week and they were saying 2-3 weeks. I checked and now it is saying 1-2 weeks. If you can afford the Prusa then get that. I also liked the fact that they have the upgrade kits to upgrade all the way from the Prusa i3 Plus to the MKS2. I am also waiting looking forward to getting the multi material upgrade which supports 2 or 4 materials at the same time. PVA supports, I can’t wait. Gordon.
On 7 Aug 2017, at 9:17 pm, Julien Goodwin <luv-lists@studio442.com.au> wrote:
On 07/08/17 16:23, Gordon Heydon via luv-talk wrote:
There are also lots of Chinese made 3d printers which are really good, these guys you are talking about have the pricer printers. Places like GearBest or Banggood have a wide range or printers, such as the Creality3D CR - 10 3D Desktop DIY Printer http://www.gearbest.com/3d-printers-3d-printer-kits/pp_441282.html which is getting good reviews lately. I have just ordered a new printer, the Original Prusa i3 MK2S http://shop.prusa3d.com/en/3d-printers/59-original-prusa-i3-mk2-kit.html which is the printer all i3 style printers have copied. But this is a bit more. It cost me about $AUD1000 shipped.
I just put together a new Prusa i3 Mk2s on the weekend and I'm incredibly happy, with no tweaking at all it's already delivering amazing prints, I think it was below AU$900 delivered.
The Wanho Duplicator which is a clone of an earlier Prusa is one a few folk at $WORK have which is much cheaper.
I wouldn't buy either if you don't want to spend time tweaking, I'm not really sure there's anything out the in the consumer-ish space that works without tweaking.
Sigh. Just buy local. The Wombot family of 3d printers designed and manufactured right there in Melbourne. http://aurarum.com.au/ The drafter is less than $1k and absolutely top quality also in printing. Open source design as well. Aurarum also manufactures filament. Regards, Arjen. On 7 August 2017 9:24:51 pm AEST, Gordon Heydon via luv-talk <luv-talk@luv.asn.au> wrote:
Hi,
I just got shocked and received my shipping tracking no. I only ordered it last week and they were saying 2-3 weeks. I checked and now it is saying 1-2 weeks.
If you can afford the Prusa then get that. I also liked the fact that they have the upgrade kits to upgrade all the way from the Prusa i3 Plus to the MKS2. I am also waiting looking forward to getting the multi material upgrade which supports 2 or 4 materials at the same time. PVA supports, I can’t wait.
Gordon.
On 7 Aug 2017, at 9:17 pm, Julien Goodwin <luv-lists@studio442.com.au> wrote:
On 07/08/17 16:23, Gordon Heydon via luv-talk wrote:
There are also lots of Chinese made 3d printers which are really good, these guys you are talking about have the pricer printers. Places like GearBest or Banggood have a wide range or printers, such as the Creality3D CR - 10 3D Desktop DIY Printer http://www.gearbest.com/3d-printers-3d-printer-kits/pp_441282.html which is getting good reviews lately. I have just ordered a new printer, the Original Prusa i3 MK2S http://shop.prusa3d.com/en/3d-printers/59-original-prusa-i3-mk2-kit.html which is the printer all i3 style printers have copied. But this is a bit more. It cost me about $AUD1000 shipped.
I just put together a new Prusa i3 Mk2s on the weekend and I'm incredibly happy, with no tweaking at all it's already delivering amazing prints, I think it was below AU$900 delivered.
The Wanho Duplicator which is a clone of an earlier Prusa is one a few folk at $WORK have which is much cheaper.
I wouldn't buy either if you don't want to spend time tweaking, I'm not really sure there's anything out the in the consumer-ish space that works without tweaking.
_______________________________________________ luv-talk mailing list luv-talk@luv.asn.au https://lists.luv.asn.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/luv-talk
-- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Arjen Lentz via luv-talk <luv-talk@luv.asn.au> writes:
Sigh. Just buy local.
The Wombot family of 3d printers designed and manufactured right there in Melbourne. http://aurarum.com.au/
The drafter is less than $1k and absolutely top quality also in printing. Open source design as well.
decisions, decisions... I see the Wombat printer has slightly bigger print area. 250mm Wide x 250mm Deep x 310mm Height Compared with the Prusa which is 25 x 21 x 20 cm. Wombat exterior dimensions: 53cm Wide x 55cm Deep x 75cm Prusa exterior dimensions: 42 x 42 x 38 cm However I like the fact the Prusa can be upgraded 4 materials. Something I suspect could be really useful when printing objects for kids who like bright colourful colours. There are probably other differences, these are the ones that stand out to me. -- Brian May <brian@linuxpenguins.xyz> https://linuxpenguins.xyz/brian/
Hi Brian On 8 August 2017 8:00:02 am AEST, Brian May via luv-talk <luv-talk@luv.asn.au> wrote:
The Wombot family of 3d printers designed and manufactured right there in Melbourne. http://aurarum.com.au/
The drafter is less than $1k and absolutely top quality also in printing.
However I like the fact the Prusa can be upgraded 4 materials. Something I suspect could be really useful when printing objects for kids who like bright colourful colours.
I don't understand what you mean here. You can put in any colour of filament you like. Even different materials, although I prefer PLA. Aurarum now also has PLA-plus which has special thermal properties that can be of use. Regards, Arjen.
Arjen Lentz via luv-talk <luv-talk@luv.asn.au> writes:
I don't understand what you mean here. You can put in any colour of filament you like. Even different materials, although I prefer PLA. Aurarum now also has PLA-plus which has special thermal properties that can be of use.
Perhaps this can video explain it better then I can: https://youtu.be/KpcH74DXyy0 You get the ability to automatically switch between 4 materials. -- Brian May <brian@linuxpenguins.xyz> https://linuxpenguins.xyz/brian/
Hi Brian
You get the ability to automatically switch between 4 materials.
Righty. That's clearer. That's not particularly complex, depending on how it's implemented. Most printers do it by having multiple extruders, while a few do something funky in the filament feed. I think that using multiple extruders, in general, makes more sense because different filament colours have a different melting point, which means that the extruder temperature needs to be different also. If you use a single head, that becomes finicky to control with quality output straight off. Just in terms of design and layout, you will find that if you have more extruders, your effective build-area is smaller. The heads are on the same XYZ Cartesian bot, so a wider set of heads means you have less X space, a deeper set means you have less Y space. The Wombot Drafter has only one extruder, in part because of this. Most of its bigger siblings have 2 heads. You can replace filament in an unused head without too much fuss while the printer is running (as long as you keep the head warm enough), so having more than 2 heads can be somewhat indulgent. Of course it's a convenience. Mind that filament attracts moisture from the air and degrades. The more filament you have "in use", the more you will notice that in print quality over time. Unless you print an awful lot, I don't think it's a winner to have say 4 spools open in the room. The standard Arduino MEGA + RAMPS 1.4 controller setup, or its equivalent with an integrated controller (I forget the name) has support for 2 extruders, which is also what most software knows about. Of course you can have more extruders, but you'll need different hardware which is not as common, and I'm not certain about the software support. You may be more restricted in what you can use. Open Source 3D printers are adaptable, you can improve and enhance them over time. The key is that you learn about how they work, and how to optimally use and maintain them. It's very important to see a 3D printer as a workshop tool (like a lathe) and not in the realm of "inkjet printer, laser printer, 3d printer". Regards, Arjen.
Hi, But there are 2 major problems/headaches with using multiple extruders. 1. You lose build space every time you add an extruder as you said. 2. You need to get the extruders aligned properly and esp in the Z direction. Also when doing multi materials you would generally not do PLA and ABS, as this would be a nightmare. PLA requires a cooler build plate and a part cooling fan, which is the opposite to ABS which requires a hotter build plate and no cooling fan. Not to mention I am not even sure how ABS and PLA would adhere to each other. There are a number of integrated controllers, like the MKS Base and the RAMbO and using a open source printer is always much more fun. The Prusa i3 MK2S is an open source printer and off the designs are available on GitHub. Gordon.
On 8 Aug 2017, at 9:30 am, Arjen Lentz via luv-talk <luv-talk@luv.asn.au> wrote:
Hi Brian
You get the ability to automatically switch between 4 materials.
Righty. That's clearer. That's not particularly complex, depending on how it's implemented. Most printers do it by having multiple extruders, while a few do something funky in the filament feed. I think that using multiple extruders, in general, makes more sense because different filament colours have a different melting point, which means that the extruder temperature needs to be different also. If you use a single head, that becomes finicky to control with quality output straight off.
Just in terms of design and layout, you will find that if you have more extruders, your effective build-area is smaller. The heads are on the same XYZ Cartesian bot, so a wider set of heads means you have less X space, a deeper set means you have less Y space. The Wombot Drafter has only one extruder, in part because of this. Most of its bigger siblings have 2 heads.
You can replace filament in an unused head without too much fuss while the printer is running (as long as you keep the head warm enough), so having more than 2 heads can be somewhat indulgent. Of course it's a convenience. Mind that filament attracts moisture from the air and degrades. The more filament you have "in use", the more you will notice that in print quality over time. Unless you print an awful lot, I don't think it's a winner to have say 4 spools open in the room.
The standard Arduino MEGA + RAMPS 1.4 controller setup, or its equivalent with an integrated controller (I forget the name) has support for 2 extruders, which is also what most software knows about. Of course you can have more extruders, but you'll need different hardware which is not as common, and I'm not certain about the software support. You may be more restricted in what you can use.
Open Source 3D printers are adaptable, you can improve and enhance them over time. The key is that you learn about how they work, and how to optimally use and maintain them. It's very important to see a 3D printer as a workshop tool (like a lathe) and not in the realm of "inkjet printer, laser printer, 3d printer".
Regards, Arjen. _______________________________________________ luv-talk mailing list luv-talk@luv.asn.au https://lists.luv.asn.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/luv-talk
Gordon Heydon via luv-talk <luv-talk@luv.asn.au> writes:
Also when doing multi materials you would generally not do PLA and ABS, as this would be a nightmare. PLA requires a cooler build plate and a part cooling fan, which is the opposite to ABS which requires a hotter build plate and no cooling fan.
Good to know. Was wondering how well the different types of materials would work with each other. I also note that the cheaper 3d printers aimed at hobbiest are more likely to support a larger range of material types then the more expensive 3d printers.
There are a number of integrated controllers, like the MKS Base and the RAMbO and using a open source printer is always much more fun. The Prusa i3 MK2S is an open source printer and off the designs are available on GitHub.
I think the Wombat printers might also be open source too. Although not 100% certain of that. If I am wrong, and it isn't, that is definitely a point in favor of the Prusa. In any case, I have had an offer from the MicroPython group to use their 3d printers. So might be the best option of learning something about 3d printing first, before I commit myself to (relatively expensive) hardware. https://www.meetup.com/MicroPython-Meetup/ -- Brian May <brian@linuxpenguins.xyz> https://linuxpenguins.xyz/brian/
Hi, I think they are running MKS Base boards with Stock Marlin. Also if you find a local maker space you can learn on their printers. The one I belong to in Brunswick has heaps of printers, both reprep style and commercial ones. Gordon.
On 8 Aug 2017, at 10:49 am, Brian May <brian@linuxpenguins.xyz> wrote:
Gordon Heydon via luv-talk <luv-talk@luv.asn.au> writes:
Also when doing multi materials you would generally not do PLA and ABS, as this would be a nightmare. PLA requires a cooler build plate and a part cooling fan, which is the opposite to ABS which requires a hotter build plate and no cooling fan.
Good to know. Was wondering how well the different types of materials would work with each other.
I also note that the cheaper 3d printers aimed at hobbiest are more likely to support a larger range of material types then the more expensive 3d printers.
There are a number of integrated controllers, like the MKS Base and the RAMbO and using a open source printer is always much more fun. The Prusa i3 MK2S is an open source printer and off the designs are available on GitHub.
I think the Wombat printers might also be open source too. Although not 100% certain of that. If I am wrong, and it isn't, that is definitely a point in favor of the Prusa.
In any case, I have had an offer from the MicroPython group to use their 3d printers. So might be the best option of learning something about 3d printing first, before I commit myself to (relatively expensive) hardware.
https://www.meetup.com/MicroPython-Meetup/ -- Brian May <brian@linuxpenguins.xyz> https://linuxpenguins.xyz/brian/
Hi Brian
I think the Wombat printers might also be open source too. Although not 100% certain of that. If I am wrong, and it isn't, that is definitely a point in favor of the Prusa.
Wombot is open also. Uses the MKS boards now (that's just an Arduino MEGA integrated with a RAMPS 1.4 board on a single PCB), and as Gordon said, it's pretty much the stock Marlin firmware.
From the Aurarum website: ph. 03 8822 3606 Factory 9, 2-22 Kirkham road W, Keysborough. Open to public Mon-Fri 9am - 5pm, Thu - 9am - 6pm, Sat - 11am - 3pm
I'm not just idly mentioning the name, I've worked with their printers and the people. They're very good. And with their pricing, there is just no sense in buying from China. In the end that comes to quality control - you can buy everything online but some sources just provide less quality for something that looks the same. If you are familiar with the source that's fine, otherwise it can be hit & miss. Been there done that (for other components). Similar with the filament, really - given the weight and postage, buying local just makes sense. That's aside from the Buy Australian concept, which also has great merit. And in this case it's not only very viable but has distinct advantages. People can take their printer "back to base" to be serviced - companies tends to use that service. They also go out to companies and schools for that kind of service. I think that's excellent, as it puts 3D printers in the right place (workshop tool).
In any case, I have had an offer from the MicroPython group to use their 3d printers. So might be the best option of learning something about 3d printing first, before I commit myself to (relatively expensive) hardware.
That's an excellent way to start, yes. Highly recommended. Regards, Arjen.
participants (4)
-
Arjen Lentz -
Brian May -
Gordon Heydon -
Julien Goodwin