
Quoting John Krivitsky (jk@smartguide.com.au):
Rick, thanks so much for explaining the subtleties and strategies behind the US electoral system. It's really quite fascinating.
You're most welcome. Many parts of it are mind-bogglingly _haphazard_, partly because of the early date when it was all improvised. E.g., the US Constitution was written and adopted in 1789, following independence and (in effect) a provisional government 13 years earlier. This was all so early that when that flamboyant character the Marquis de Lafayette came home to France from America to help lead the French Revolution and help write the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen (Déclaration des droits de l'homme et du citoyen), he was able to jest -- with factual accuracy -- that he'd become an (American) citizen before the concept of (French) citizenship existed. (The brand new US states of Maryland, Connecticut, Massachusetts, and Virginia conferred citizenship on him in gratitude for his help in the war of independence.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilbert_du_Motier,_Marquis_de_Lafayette#Hero_o... Part of what makes the US arrangement complex will be familiar to both Australians and Canadians, i.e. federalism -- as will diversity among the country's states. But anyway, something invented in the 1700s can be understood to likely contain some peculiarities and utterly puzzling features. And I didn't even get to that infamous, totally screwball 18th Century holdover, the USA's Electoral College, which will become relevant for the November general election. And, if the US is _really_ unlucky, and the Electoral College doesn't return a majority choice for President and VP, the Fourteenth Amendment will kick the whole election to the Senate and the House of Representatives, and you'll never believe the stupidity of how _that_ works. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_(United_States)#Fourteenth_A... Trent W. Buck really nailed it: The US setup has horrible kludges because it was created over 200 years ago, when it took months to get anywhere, and the people who should have revised those kludges punted on the responsibility because the kludges are what put them in power.
The Australian system seems to be much more straight forward.
Absolutely. _And_ Oz's working IRV implementation is a blessing to the world, that should be more widely emulated. Not perfect, but a huge improvement on anything architected in 1789.

Rick Moen via luv-talk wrote:
Part of what makes the US arrangement complex will be familiar to both Australians and Canadians, i.e. federalism -- as will diversity among the country's states.
AFAICT US states have significantly more autonomy than our states. The mental shim I use to help understand US sociopolitical borkage is: The USA resembles the EU more closely than the USA resembles a regular nation-state. So like when Florida does something crazy and New York shakes it head and sighs, that's the equivalent of Poland[1] and Germany, not WA.au and NSW.au. [1] http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/16/conspiracy-theorists-who-have-t...
Absolutely. _And_ Oz's working IRV implementation is a blessing to the world, that should be more widely emulated. Not perfect, but a huge improvement on anything architected in 1789.
Note that Australia has revised its IRV style several times, to reduce the number of invalid & donkey votes. For example, the "or just put a 1 above the line" thing wasn't in the original design.
participants (2)
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Rick Moen
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Trent W. Buck