Re: [luv-talk] local government (Andrew McGlashan)
Russell Coker wrote: ----- Original Message -----
On Fri, 22 Feb 2013, Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> wrote:
There may be areas where Aboriginals need extra support, but that is > also true of every other group of Australians whom make up our
population today.
I really don't think that straight white men need extra support.
I read Andrew as: People with drug problems need support. People with alcohol problems need support. People with violence problems need support. Unemployed people need support. I find it interesting that most migrants from all backgrounds find their feet in the Australian society over time. To the credit of Australians, there is a lot of goodwill and support to make it happen. Compared to many other societies Australia is a very open tolerating place. People want to live here. Yes, they want to celebrate their own culture - and are able to do so - but they want to live an Australian life of freedom in their daily life, tolerated, with less stress than where they come from, most of them better off than where they come from, and other attributes they enjoy to have here. There is some pressure to accept Australian values (e.g. to respect the law system and not resorting to violence in disputes, as some will have experienced in their place of origin) but that is widely accepted. Until now we have not been able to integrate the Aboriginals that well, and there is still some dispute about how to achieve it. Until now, we do not think it is a good idea of having a Sharia based system for Muslims in our country even if some Muslims may claim it would suit them. And there will be Muslims who would not like that at all. They are happy to be escaped a society that punishes them like that. We are very uncertain how far autonomy for Aboriginals should go. Should we tolerate spearing to settle disputes, as it is still practised? And, what about an Aboriginal who does not want to live that way? It is not that the Aboriginals where noble savages in paradise before "white men came". Their was violence, the average life expectation far below our "white society" standards, many kids did not survive their childhood etc. Coming back to the people who need support.. it is complex without "cultural problems". Everybody who had experienced a friend with alcohol problems will say that - and I have a close friend who is just "lost". His very supporting wife left him after 14 years because she and her daughter could not cope with it any longer. And what to do with a group, a place where many of them are drinking, as I remember the outskirts of Alice Springs, e.g. There will be many families where mother drinks, father drinks, uncle drinks. How do you help here? And will be a constitutional recognition help them in any meaningful ways? I do not have an answer but I don't think anybody knows. Goodwill is there, I believe. "What to do?" is another question. There is struggle between thoughts of assimilation and thoughts of giving them wide cultural autonomy. There are three reasons to support the first one: - It works for most migrants - They still value their own culture - Even some older Aboriginal seem to look back at mission times as better for them, as today's life. A note about the last one: I don't support missions in the way they worked 50 years ago. But our "Western society" evolved since too. E.g. a lot of children born out of wedlock were subject of forced adoption then. And, at the moment there is a lot of uncertainty about the "how to" leading to a mess and lack of continuity in dealing with this issue. Regards Peter
One big difference is that migrants immigrated to Australia, whereas Europeans encroached on Aboriginal territory (originally). Aborigines didn't CHOOSE to come here and integrate into Australian culture. Immigrants did. Alcohol is an issue in a great deal of Aboriginal society, but it, too, was introduced by Europeans. If recognition of the Aboriginal people as the first Australians will help, without harming the body of the constitution, I'm all for it and I don't see any harm in it, only good. Regards, Michael On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 10:35 AM, Petros <Petros.Listig@fdrive.com.au>wrote:
Russell Coker wrote:
----- Original Message -----
On Fri, 22 Feb 2013, Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> wrote:
There may be areas where Aboriginals need extra support, but that is > also true of every other group of Australians whom make up our
population today.
I really don't think that straight white men need extra support.
I read Andrew as:
People with drug problems need support. People with alcohol problems need support. People with violence problems need support. Unemployed people need support.
I find it interesting that most migrants from all backgrounds find their feet in the Australian society over time.
To the credit of Australians, there is a lot of goodwill and support to make it happen. Compared to many other societies Australia is a very open tolerating place.
People want to live here. Yes, they want to celebrate their own culture - and are able to do so - but they want to live an Australian life of freedom in their daily life, tolerated, with less stress than where they come from, most of them better off than where they come from, and other attributes they enjoy to have here.
There is some pressure to accept Australian values (e.g. to respect the law system and not resorting to violence in disputes, as some will have experienced in their place of origin) but that is widely accepted.
Until now we have not been able to integrate the Aboriginals that well, and there is still some dispute about how to achieve it.
Until now, we do not think it is a good idea of having a Sharia based system for Muslims in our country even if some Muslims may claim it would suit them. And there will be Muslims who would not like that at all. They are happy to be escaped a society that punishes them like that.
We are very uncertain how far autonomy for Aboriginals should go. Should we tolerate spearing to settle disputes, as it is still practised?
And, what about an Aboriginal who does not want to live that way?
It is not that the Aboriginals where noble savages in paradise before "white men came". Their was violence, the average life expectation far below our "white society" standards, many kids did not survive their childhood etc.
Coming back to the people who need support.. it is complex without "cultural problems". Everybody who had experienced a friend with alcohol problems will say that - and I have a close friend who is just "lost". His very supporting wife left him after 14 years because she and her daughter could not cope with it any longer.
And what to do with a group, a place where many of them are drinking, as I remember the outskirts of Alice Springs, e.g. There will be many families where mother drinks, father drinks, uncle drinks. How do you help here?
And will be a constitutional recognition help them in any meaningful ways?
I do not have an answer but I don't think anybody knows.
Goodwill is there, I believe. "What to do?" is another question.
There is struggle between thoughts of assimilation and thoughts of giving them wide cultural autonomy.
There are three reasons to support the first one:
- It works for most migrants - They still value their own culture - Even some older Aboriginal seem to look back at mission times as better for them, as today's life.
A note about the last one: I don't support missions in the way they worked 50 years ago. But our "Western society" evolved since too. E.g. a lot of children born out of wedlock were subject of forced adoption then.
And, at the moment there is a lot of uncertainty about the "how to" leading to a mess and lack of continuity in dealing with this issue.
Regards Peter
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participants (2)
-
Michael Scott -
Petros