Re: [luv-talk] Gay marriage is traditional - luv-talk

31 Mar 2012

On Sat, 31 Mar 2012, Michael Scott &lt;mds(a)inoz.net&gt; wrote:
...
  Russell, please at least be honest with your posts.
The "member of this
 list" didn't try to "convince" you of anything. Just asked you to read
a
 book which I have read. Pretty much the same as your asking me to read YOUR
 "propaganda". 
The difference of course is that I cited web pages which can be freely read 
with a single mouse click.  While you are implicitely requesting that I donate 
money to an organisation I oppose to read their propaganda.  Now if they were 
to make a free ebook of it for download in PDF then I might even read a couple 
of pages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_marriage#Ancient

Your claim that no church in history has ever permitted Gay marriage, but 
there is lots of evidence.  In general claiming that something has never been 
done in human history is one of those extraordinary claims which requires 
extraordinary evidence - not just some hand-waving.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blessing_of_same-sex_unions_in_Christian_churc…

Even aside from that, the fact that so many modern churches are blessing Gay 
marriages and civil unions (in the case where the church accepts Gay 
relationships but the state doesn't) makes it quite implausible that all the 
different churches over the period from ~50 to ~1900 have had unanimous 
agreement on this issue in spite of having no real contact with each other.

...
  The first article mentions a rape victim and says that
she "must marry the
 rapist", when in fact Deuteronomy says the rapist must marry the victim. I
 can't comment on the culture of the time....thousands of years BC.... about
 the status of women. It's easy to believe everything you read, especially
 if it says what you want it to say. 
http://www.care2.com/causes/a-woman-should-not-have-to-marry-her-rapist.html

We don't need to discuss "thousands of years BC" when such things are 
happening today.  The above article describes the situation and explains why 
the victim isn't legally compelled to marry her rapist, but social pressure 
from her family forces her to.

...
  Even examples of people in the church participating in
gay sex doesn't mean
 The Church accepts it. It just means that no-one is perfect. 
The people who oppose gay marriage seem to be less perfect than most judging 
by the weird stuff the conversion therapy people do.

...
  You said to me that I don't understand
Christianity. You have shown that
 YOU have NO understanding of Christianity. Christians are not perfect. What
 Christians have is a faith. Not a perfection. 
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/jn/good_list.html

Christians are not supposed to be judgmental, "He that is without sin among 
you, let him first cast a stone at her."

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1cor/13.html

Christians are supposed to have charity, "and though I have all faith, so that 
I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing".

Now if Christians were to demonstrate those qualities when it comes to the 
debate about what the secular laws should be regarding marriage then we 
wouldn't be having an argument.

...
  In that faith I don't hold any "dislike"
for gays/lesbians. As I said to
 you, I have many gay/lesbian friends. But you refused to believe me in
 that. I offered to give their details to you, but you ignored that and said
 "they all say that". 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_marriage#Health_issues

If they are such good friends then why are you acting in a way that has a 
negative impact on their health?  Surely you would want your friends to have 
all the health and financial benefits that derive from being married.

-- 
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