On Sat, 31 Mar 2012, Michael Scott <mds@inoz.net> wrote:

Russell, please at least be honest with your posts. The "member of this list" didn't try to "convince" you of anything. Just asked you to read a book which I have read. Pretty much the same as your asking me to read YOUR "propaganda".

The difference of course is that I cited web pages which can be freely read with a single mouse click. While you are implicitely requesting that I donate money to an organisation I oppose to read their propaganda. Now if they were to make a free ebook of it for download in PDF then I might even read a couple of pages. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_marriage#Ancient Your claim that no church in history has ever permitted Gay marriage, but there is lots of evidence. In general claiming that something has never been done in human history is one of those extraordinary claims which requires extraordinary evidence - not just some hand-waving. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blessing_of_same-sex_unions_in_Christian_church... Even aside from that, the fact that so many modern churches are blessing Gay marriages and civil unions (in the case where the church accepts Gay relationships but the state doesn't) makes it quite implausible that all the different churches over the period from ~50 to ~1900 have had unanimous agreement on this issue in spite of having no real contact with each other.

The first article mentions a rape victim and says that she "must marry the rapist", when in fact Deuteronomy says the rapist must marry the victim. I can't comment on the culture of the time....thousands of years BC.... about the status of women. It's easy to believe everything you read, especially if it says what you want it to say.

http://www.care2.com/causes/a-woman-should-not-have-to-marry-her-rapist.html We don't need to discuss "thousands of years BC" when such things are happening today. The above article describes the situation and explains why the victim isn't legally compelled to marry her rapist, but social pressure from her family forces her to.

Even examples of people in the church participating in gay sex doesn't mean The Church accepts it. It just means that no-one is perfect.

The people who oppose gay marriage seem to be less perfect than most judging by the weird stuff the conversion therapy people do.

You said to me that I don't understand Christianity. You have shown that YOU have NO understanding of Christianity. Christians are not perfect. What Christians have is a faith. Not a perfection.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/jn/good_list.html Christians are not supposed to be judgmental, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1cor/13.html Christians are supposed to have charity, "and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing". Now if Christians were to demonstrate those qualities when it comes to the debate about what the secular laws should be regarding marriage then we wouldn't be having an argument.

In that faith I don't hold any "dislike" for gays/lesbians. As I said to you, I have many gay/lesbian friends. But you refused to believe me in that. I offered to give their details to you, but you ignored that and said "they all say that".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_marriage#Health_issues If they are such good friends then why are you acting in a way that has a negative impact on their health? Surely you would want your friends to have all the health and financial benefits that derive from being married. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/