Andrew McGlashan via luv-talk wrote: Seems like a nice phone , and even if I don't understand all the problems that it solves ,  it does seem to solve the ones that I do. Would that be the : "$599  Librem 5 phone, including phone and charger (free worldwide shipping) Jan, 2019 "   ? Not sure I will get one of those , but it does seem like a good sign; once the phone companies realize there is a lot of dissatisfaction 'out there' with proprietary lock-in; I believe " products will follow the demographic" Digressing; I have similar hopes of ink-jet printer which are starting to offer, built-in bulk-ink functionality in consumer printers My last Telsta basic (extremely rudimentary internet)   ZTE  phone was still going strong after  10 years, when it was lost .I chose it for good access out of the Melbourne metropolitan area. Not hugely concerned if the Chinese government(or the US or Australian either)   is listening in on my, conversations (what a dull job !); though I would prefer they weren't . My complaints were much more parochial : 1/: no means of winding up the high end sound on the ear-piece,...I am getting deafer ! , though it would be very easy to implement 2/ no built in answering machine also  very easy to implement regards Rohan McLeod

Rick Moen via luv-talk wrote: Rich thanks for the reply;  the security hole in the actual hardware obviously makes the replacement of of Android with say Lineage problematic eg on my .Galaxy_SII_GT-i9100T How ever the reason I have abandoned that project is more to do with ,  it's technical contingency ie.the endless hidden gotcha's in the numerous ' recipes'  , mentioned ; and my own lack of expertise. Also the original issue  was the shear bloody minded proprietary 'shut in'. That is the impeded access to websites, software and email options, relative to the desktop experience, the primary culprits for which seem to be -Google as the 'authors' of the Android distribution -Samsung as the creators of the applications 'stack' Regarding security and the related issues of privacy and identity theft; inevitably following disclosure of  exploits by  intelligence agencies  , but more importantly  criminal groups; the younger users of iphones etc who mostly use them for: -sms, playing games, listening to music; will start to demand greater privacy. The issue will then swing from users right to privacy;  to the requirement of a justified  'need to know' by any party which seeks ; identifying information. Although OS hardening, VM compartmentalization, VPN, program proving etc will undoubtedly also be apart of the future. Having no locks on our houses might be convenient for police and security agencies but no one  considers  that will ever happen ! Like wise the security and privacy of our information will also eventually; be taken-for-granted  ! regards Rohan McLeod