The Age today: 30-year-old railway computers take a byte out of the past
http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/30yearold-railway-comput... 1982.. 1982? What do they use here? Anyway, may explain why I needed 40 minutes yesterday, 20 each way Southern Cross to Macauley, 2 stations, 5km, more parking than moving.. just a normal day commuting. Regards Peter
On Tue, October 15, 2013 4:46 pm, Petros wrote:
http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/30yearold-railway-comput...
1982.. 1982? What do they use here?
I've heard constant rumours of a PDP-11 :) -- Lev Lafayette, BA (Hons), GCertPM, MBA mobile: 0432 255 208 RFC 1855 Netiquette Guidelines http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt
Hi, I would not be surprised. I was using PDP-11 at Uni in the early 90's before it was replaced with a 486 running Microsoft Xenix. Gordon. On 15/10/2013, at 5:13 PM, "Lev Lafayette" <lev@levlafayette.com> wrote:
On Tue, October 15, 2013 4:46 pm, Petros wrote:
http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/30yearold-railway-comput...
1982.. 1982? What do they use here?
I've heard constant rumours of a PDP-11 :)
-- Lev Lafayette, BA (Hons), GCertPM, MBA mobile: 0432 255 208 RFC 1855 Netiquette Guidelines http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt
_______________________________________________ luv-talk mailing list luv-talk@lists.luv.asn.au http://lists.luv.asn.au/listinfo/luv-talk
On 15/10/13 17:13, Lev Lafayette wrote:
On Tue, October 15, 2013 4:46 pm, Petros wrote:
http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/30yearold-railway-comput...
1982.. 1982? What do they use here?
I've heard constant rumours of a PDP-11 :)
I've been told they're VAXen, although if they run VMS the hardware could now be Alphas or Itanics. (RIP VMS) A former colleague went to work for the company that does some of this kit, according to him one of the problems they had was the staff/union refusing to accept any change in UI so they needed to develop a text-based UI that was identical to the old systems, including for the visualisations.
They're PDP-8s. There is a massive collection of PDP-8s in various states of undress at Transport House in Collins Street. Metrol used to purchase all the old PDP-8s that came on the market an they kept them for spares. There was a failed attempt to replace the old DEC based system in the early 2000s (or maybe late 1990s). Bombardier was the contractor developing the software on Windows (IIRC) on Compaq hardware. The project was canned after major cost blow-outs. A whole shed-load of hardware was purchased and installed and new workstations with what were HUGE CRT monitors at all the train control workstations. As of 2005, there was a heap of brand-new, still-in-the-plastic shrink wrap kit on the 5th floor computer room along with the PDP-8 boneyard. Sent from my iPhone On 15/10/2013, at 17:52, Julien Goodwin <luv-lists@studio442.com.au> wrote:
On 15/10/13 17:13, Lev Lafayette wrote:
On Tue, October 15, 2013 4:46 pm, Petros wrote:
http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/30yearold-railway-comput...
1982.. 1982? What do they use here?
I've heard constant rumours of a PDP-11 :)
I've been told they're VAXen, although if they run VMS the hardware could now be Alphas or Itanics. (RIP VMS)
A former colleague went to work for the company that does some of this kit, according to him one of the problems they had was the staff/union refusing to accept any change in UI so they needed to develop a text-based UI that was identical to the old systems, including for the visualisations. _______________________________________________ luv-talk mailing list luv-talk@lists.luv.asn.au http://lists.luv.asn.au/listinfo/luv-talk
Oops. I stand corrected. PDP-11/74 then PDP-11/80 http://irse.org.au/index.php/en/component/docman/doc_download/569-metrol-con... Sent from my iPhone On 15/10/2013, at 17:52, Julien Goodwin <luv-lists@studio442.com.au> wrote:
On 15/10/13 17:13, Lev Lafayette wrote:
On Tue, October 15, 2013 4:46 pm, Petros wrote:
http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/30yearold-railway-comput...
1982.. 1982? What do they use here?
I've heard constant rumours of a PDP-11 :)
I've been told they're VAXen, although if they run VMS the hardware could now be Alphas or Itanics. (RIP VMS)
A former colleague went to work for the company that does some of this kit, according to him one of the problems they had was the staff/union refusing to accept any change in UI so they needed to develop a text-based UI that was identical to the old systems, including for the visualisations. _______________________________________________ luv-talk mailing list luv-talk@lists.luv.asn.au http://lists.luv.asn.au/listinfo/luv-talk
On Tue, October 15, 2013 11:18 pm, Duncan16v wrote:
Oops. I stand corrected. PDP-11/74 then PDP-11/80
http://irse.org.au/index.php/en/component/docman/doc_download/569-metrol-con...
Ha! I was right the first time :) -- Lev Lafayette, BA (Hons), GCertPM, MBA mobile: 0432 255 208 RFC 1855 Netiquette Guidelines http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt
On Tue, 15 Oct 2013, Julien Goodwin wrote:
On 15/10/13 17:13, Lev Lafayette wrote:
On Tue, October 15, 2013 4:46 pm, Petros wrote:
http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/30yearold-railway-comput...
1982.. 1982? What do they use here?
I've heard constant rumours of a PDP-11 :)
I've been told they're VAXen, although if they run VMS the hardware could now be Alphas or Itanics. (RIP VMS)
A former colleague went to work for the company that does some of this kit, according to him one of the problems they had was the staff/union refusing to accept any change in UI so they needed to develop a text-based UI that was identical to the old systems, including for the visualisations.
Bah. Unions. Oooh, change is scary, let's ban change! You missed the talk I gave at LUV a couple of years ago about the observatory replacing the 8-year-older Telescope Control System with the Interdata model 70 (by the time it was decomissioned, there were about 6 other almost-complete model 70s in storage downstairs to replace bits of the production machine as they caught fire). The last upgrades done to that machine was a couple of decades before it was retired, where VAXen were installed to talk to the model 70 over its custom CAMAC link (shared memory, essentially, IIRC), and real computers talked to the VAXen over TCP/IP. Or a crate on the floor with cables dangling out of it talked directly to the shared memory and 10mbit TCP/IP out the other end. There had been a serious problem in the last decade of its life where its harddisks and memory were simply maxed out. No custom FPGA interfaces to those guys when there's only 1 person left on the planet who understands it, and he shuns fancy new techniques like FPGAs. We had a smaller staff to contend with, but everyone *loved* the fact that we were replacing a large amount of the computery bits and simplifying the hardware interface in the console. 35 year old buttons are not reliable buttons. I would have thought the union men would have been caring about safety and things working more than protecting their patch. Probably scared the new system will be too easy to operate. -- Tim Connors
On Wed, Nov 06, 2013 at 04:31:42PM +1100, Tim Connors wrote:
Bah. Unions. Oooh, change is scary, let's ban change!
if you think that's what resistance to technology changes in the workplace is about, then you're a fool. it's about jobs, it's about livelihoods, it's about the workforce's - the union's membership - ability to feed, clothe and house themselves and their families. it's nowhere near as simple as the idiot reflexive technophobia you make it out to be. ultimately, and most importantly, it's about whether technology and the economy and all of humankind's other contrivances exist to serve humanity or whether humanity exists to serve them. the luddite movement has freqently been miscast - by the winners, the captains of industry and their propagandists in the media - as fearful and blind opposition to new technology. it was, and remains, about equitable distribution of the spoils of technology and automation - i.e. that the wealthy, the capitalists, the owner classes, should not be the sole or even primary beneficiaries of "progress". that people should not be consigned to the scrapheap, to financial ruin and starvation, merely because a more efficient means has been invented for the rich to own more than they already do. craig -- craig sanders <cas@taz.net.au>
Craig Sanders <cas@taz.net.au> wrote:
it's about jobs, it's about livelihoods, it's about the workforce's - the union's membership - ability to feed, clothe and house themselves and their families.
Indeed, that's the nub of the matter. In the cases under discussion in this thread, if I'm interpreting correctly, nobody's livelihood would be adversely affected by new software and new user interfaces with the same functionality as the existing systems. In general, though, Craig's observations are exactly on point.
participants (8)
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Craig Sanders -
Duncan16v -
Gordon Heydon -
Jason White -
Julien Goodwin -
Lev Lafayette -
Petros -
Tim Connors