From: "Lev Lafayette" Subject: Re: [luv-talk] Refugees (was Re: Vale Nelson Mandela) To: luv-talk@lists.luv.asn.au

On Sun, January 19, 2014 10:55 pm, Peter wrote:

...

If you like, browse through the refugee statistics as provided by the UNHCR, e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_refugee_population

Interesting table.

For starters it suggests that the world refugee population is 10 million, not the 20 million previously cited, and half of those are Palestinians.

The numbers do bounce around depending on the level of conflict at various times. As you perhaps also suggested, there is also a question of definition. I have heard it said (not by you) for example that there is really no such thing as Palestine as a country. Therefore "Palestinians" in Jordan or Syria or Lebanon or Egypt are really in most cases in their own country and therefore do not fit with some legal definitions of refugees. Similar arguments are made about other refugees in other places, that they are merely criminals or economic migrants etc. After studying law for a while, before giving it away in disgust (I was in Malcolm Turnbull's class at Sydney University), I concluded that legal definitions are not a reliable guide to moral issues. So I don't put much store on the UN's legal definition. In a moral sense is there much difference between a person fleeing persecution and a person fleeing hunger, disease, starvation or lack of opportunity? There is also the issue of latent refugee supply. Imagine for example if Australia brought in a policy that any <member of ethnic group X> from <country Y> who arrived in Australia was to be counted as a refugee from persecution. It would not be a big surprise to see a rapid increase in people of ethnic group X from country Y arriving and claiming to be refugees. We currently do a lot to make being a refugee very unappealing, and this no doubt reduces their numbers - not to zero but below what it would be if we made it very appealing. In any case, whether the number is 10,000,000 or 20,000,000 or 40,000,000, it vastly exceeds Australia's capacity reasonably to accept them. Some limitation is in my opinion going to be required. According to my calculations already 15% of our GDP is spent catering for population growth (eg the desalination plants). In the Green senator's speech previously discussed, it was claimed that very few people would leave their country of origin, except in cases of the most dire need. This is simply not the case. Immigration to Australia is already in the range of 300,000 per year and many more are knocked back. Over 13,000,000 people apply annually for the US green card lottery - one measure of the demand for alife in a wealthy first world country. Tim