3 May
2015
3 May
'15
6:05 a.m.
With modern computers having such low margins, I expect a lot more of
this very bad behaviour from manufacturers.
Computers and IT is very quickly becoming something with a great lack of
trust, so sad.
http://www.itnews.com.au/News/400712,lenovo-caught-pre-installing-adware-on…
Cheers
A.
4 May
4 May
12:54 a.m.
On Sun, 3 May 2015, Andrew McGlashan wrote:
With modern computers having such low margins, I
expect a lot more of
this very bad behaviour from manufacturers.
Computers and IT is very quickly becoming something with a great lack of
trust, so sad.
http://www.itnews.com.au/News/400712,lenovo-caught-pre-installing-adware-on…
Becoming?
I remember going into IT shops 15 years ago, and not finding a single
trustworthy soul behind the selling counters.
--
Tim Connors
8:52 a.m.
On 05/03/2015 06:05 AM, Andrew McGlashan wrote:
With modern computers having such low margins, I
expect a lot more of
this very bad behaviour from manufacturers.
Computers and IT is very quickly becoming something with a great lack of
trust, so sad.
http://www.itnews.com.au/News/400712,lenovo-caught-pre-installing-adware-on…
Cheers
A.
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This is indeed an issue.
The only way around this would be to install your own trustworthy OS of
choice and treat your purchase as purchase of hardware only. Most (if
not all) people on this list are already doing this
Most manufacturers install some sort of Windows crapware.
Lenovo just went too far...
Cheers,
DB
9:25 a.m.
Davor Balder <dbalder(a)ozemail.com.au> wrote:
The only way around this would be to install your own
trustworthy OS of
choice and treat your purchase as purchase of hardware only. Most (if
not all) people on this list are already doing this
Yes, exactly. Of course, most of those people would rather not pay for the
licenced copy of software that they're only going to delete in order to
install Linux, but that's a separate problem.
Most manufacturers install some sort of Windows crapware.
Lenovo just went too far...
They make good hardware however. I have access to a Lenovo T440S at work, an
impressive piece of hardware. I also own an old Lenovo X200, which still runs
fine (it has been a Linux machine since the day I bought it and ran a Debian
installer).
12:39 p.m.
On 05/04/2015 09:25 AM, Jason White wrote:
Yes, I like their hardware. I have a few of their machines for various
purposes (work and pleasure). They are great. I do hope there are no
backdoors in their firmware (has this code ever been audited?). One
needs Windows to install their latest firmware (this too is a concern of
mine).
One can not be too careful these days...
Davor Balder <dbalder(a)ozemail.com.au> wrote:
Has anybody been successful in obtaining a refund for Windows installed
on one of those laptops (in the last 3-5 years? If so, that could be an
avenue to be pursued... I don't think this is the part to be taken by
many, but it is a possibility if one wants to make a stand for what we
believe in...
The only way around this would be to install your
own trustworthy OS of
choice and treat your purchase as purchase of hardware only. Most (if
not all) people on this list are already doing this
Yes, exactly. Of course, most of those people would rather not pay for the
licenced copy of software that they're only going to delete in order to
install Linux, but that's a separate problem.
Most manufacturers install some sort of Windows crapware.
Lenovo just went too far...
They make good hardware however. I have access to a Lenovo T440S at work, an
impressive piece of hardware. I also own an old Lenovo X200, which still runs
fine (it has been a Linux machine since the day I bought it and ran a Debian
installer).
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1:17 p.m.
Most manufacturers install some sort of Windows crapware.
Lenovo just went too far...
They make good hardware however. I have access to a Lenovo T440S at work, an
impressive piece of hardware. I also own an old Lenovo X200, which still runs
fine (it has been a Linux machine since the day I bought it and ran a Debian
installer).
_______________________________________________
luv-talk mailing list
luv-talk(a)luv.asn.au
http://lists.luv.asn.au/listinfo/luv-talk
_______________________________________________
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1:35 p.m.
On 05/04/2015 01:17 PM, Daniel Jitnah wrote:
Has anybody been successful in obtaining a
refund for Windows installed
on one of those laptops (in the last 3-5 years? If so, that could be an
avenue to be pursued... I don't think this is the part to be taken by
many, but it is a possibility if one wants to make a stand for what we
believe in...
When I purchased a ASUS laptop about 2 yrs ago, I seriously thought
about doing that, while thoroughly documenting the whole process, with
witness, video and the lot., to prove that I never booted Windows on it.
But in my case though, what I purchased was a "refurbished ASUS" laptop
through GraysOnline, although it was sold with warranty from ASUS, but
it was apparent that usual warranty did not apply in full, as one would
get if it was a "new" laptop. (for example it did not have full
packaging and user guide etc., but in all other aspects it was new as
far as I can tell. It came with a separate warranty statement.). So I
disappointingly I had to give up on that - Still have never booted the
Windows partition on it though, which is still there!
The point is that, as I understand it, if you want to get a Windows
refund, you need to approach the vendor/manufacturer, and not MS. And
every vendor has their own policy on how to deal with that. It seems to
me that the obvious thing for them to do, is that if they are faced with
a persistent customer, they would take back the PC/Laptop and refund the
customer!
If someone wants to try to get a Windows refund, it be nice to document
the process online, a blog or YouTube video comes to mind. I'd be happy
to help with that.
Just to add, we would also need:
A few witnesses of purchase who could confirm that: 1.) the person
purchasing does not use windows and 2.) it is unlikely that the person
purchasing computer will use windows for personal use / communications.
Also a Personal Stat Dec stating that the person does not use Windows
(and ideally has not used this for personal use for quite some time).
Also (ideally) if we were to do this this would be great for our publicity.
To be discussed further, I guess, if there is enough interest... :-)
>>>
>>> Most manufacturers install some sort of Windows crapware.
>>>
>>> Lenovo just went too far...
>>
>> They make good hardware however. I have access to a Lenovo T440S at work, an
>> impressive piece of hardware. I also own an old Lenovo X200, which still runs
>> fine (it has been a Linux machine since the day I bought it and ran a Debian
>> installer).
>
> Yes, I like their hardware. I have a few of their machines for various
> purposes (work and pleasure). They are great. I do hope there are no
> backdoors in their firmware (has this code ever been audited?). One
> needs Windows to install their latest firmware (this too is a concern of
> mine).
>
> One can not be too careful these days...
>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> luv-talk mailing list
>> luv-talk(a)luv.asn.au
>> http://lists.luv.asn.au/listinfo/luv-talk
>>
> _______________________________________________
> luv-talk mailing list
> luv-talk(a)luv.asn.au
> http://lists.luv.asn.au/listinfo/luv-talk
>
5:39 p.m.
On 4/05/2015 9:25 AM, Jason White wrote:
They make good hardware however. I have access to a
Lenovo T440S at work, an
impressive piece of hardware. I also own an old Lenovo X200, which still runs
fine (it has been a Linux machine since the day I bought it and ran a Debian
installer).
Everything changes too quickly, if Lenovo can get away with less good
manufacturing or less quality parts; then that will happen. Past
experiences with good Lenovo hardware isn't going to be a reliable
indicator of what might come in the future.
The Lenovo brand has completely transformed already, it was originally
IBM. Only time will tell if the hardware remains amongst the best
available.
A.
5:37 p.m.
On 4/05/2015 8:52 AM, Davor Balder wrote:
The only way around this would be to install your own
trustworthy OS of
choice and treat your purchase as purchase of hardware only. Most (if
not all) people on this list are already doing this
True, but the time of buying a Windows appliance is upon us now or very
soon. Windows 10 will require UEFI with secure boot turned on and it
may or may not allow secure boot to be turned off AND it may only have
keys that work for Windows boxen. When that happens, you'll have an
appliance that will run Windows and it won't run anything else.
A.
9:21 a.m.
Andrew McGlashan wrote:
With modern computers having such low margins, I
expect a lot more of
this very bad behaviour from manufacturers.
Computers and IT is very quickly becoming something with a great lack of
trust, so sad.
It is also inconsistent with self-interest; trading one's credibility for short term
profit which is rife in the world;
may not result in punishment in some next life; but it will certainly result in a loss of
credibility in this one !
regards Rohan McLeod
12:45 p.m.
On 05/04/2015 09:21 AM, Rohan McLeod wrote:
Andrew McGlashan wrote:
What can be done about this.
If enough people petition, this could possibly have grounds for class
action (perhaps this is already in progress).
On a separate note, if one has enough data on how 'crapware' slows
down new installations of Windows (assuming unsuspecting users), there
could be another one.
I am just speculating here - EFF could examine these (if they have not
already). I know I am talking about Windows - it is the principle and
the social implications of behaviour I am looking at (at the moment)...
Cheers,
DB
_______________________________________________
With modern computers having such low margins, I
expect a lot
more of this very bad behaviour from manufacturers.
Computers and IT is very quickly becoming something with a great
lack of trust, so sad.
It is also inconsistent with self-interest; trading one's
credibility for short term profit which is rife in the world; may
not result in punishment in some next life; but it will certainly
result in a loss of credibility in this one !
regards Rohan McLeod luv-talk mailing list luv-talk(a)luv.asn.au
http://lists.luv.asn.au/listinfo/luv-talk
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10 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
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Andrew McGlashan -
Daniel Jitnah -
Davor Balder -
Jason White -
Rohan McLeod -
Tim Connors