From: "Russell Coker" <russell@coker.com.au>
Also it's interesting to note how many "Christians" expect Muslims who live in countries such as the US and Australia to disclaim any connection with terrorists from the middle-east. But you never see Christians disclaiming the actions of the FRC. It's rare to even see Christians even denouncing the WBC.
Because it is silly. To ask someone to "denounce" someone elses act is complete nonsense if you talk about large groups which have millions and billions of members. You are not "closely associated" with any particular member or a small fraction you may nothing to do with at all. E.g. the IS has a few ten thousands or so. It you are lucky it is 0.1 % of the Muslim population world wide. BTW: You may interested how many percent of the world-wide sales of weaponry end up in the hand of these. That may give you a bit interesting insight about who is behind what. But apologies for sidetracking. Also people leaving a country and situation are lucky to leave it all behind. E.g. I cannot be bothered to figure out who was spying on me for the Stasi. (A friend asked for his file. It just made him angry.) It is just annoying if the "new situation" claims to be so much superior and has in fact so many dark secrets as well. Just look at the reaction when Bruce Springsteen and David Grohl were singing John Fogerty's (CCR) "Fortunate Son" last night. Fogerty was a drafted soldier in Vietnam.. But it is easier to drone about the man who were fighting for our freedom. E.g. in Gallipoli which is a thousand miles away from British soil and half the Earth from Australia. Unfortunately the majority is still attracted to mindless droning. That's why most politicians are using slogans instead of arguments. So to speak: These days I can (still?) voice my dissent openly. But it does not change a lot. And this mail was much too long in an age were the average attention span is 140 characters;-) Regards Peter ------- “Yeah, some folks inherit star spangled eyes They send you down to war, Lord And when you ask them, “How much should we give?” They only answer, more, more, more. “It ain’t me, it ain’t me, I ain’t no Senator’s son. It ain’t me, it ain’t me, I ain’t no fortunate one.” John Fogerty (CCR) 1969
Peter Ross wrote:
Unfortunately the majority is still attracted to mindless droning. That's why most politicians are using slogans instead of arguments.
Whenever I hear e.g. Winnie or FDR speeches, they sound a lot more charismatic and convincing than anything I hear from a contemporary politician. Is that just selection bias?
On Thu, 13 Nov 2014, "Peter Ross" <Petros.Listig@fdrive.com.au> wrote:
From: "Russell Coker" <russell@coker.com.au>
Also it's interesting to note how many "Christians" expect Muslims who live in countries such as the US and Australia to disclaim any connection with terrorists from the middle-east. But you never see Christians disclaiming the actions of the FRC. It's rare to even see Christians even denouncing the WBC.
Because it is silly.
To ask someone to "denounce" someone elses act is complete nonsense if you talk about large groups which have millions and billions of members. You are not "closely associated" with any particular member or a small fraction you may nothing to do with at all.
E.g. the IS has a few ten thousands or so. It you are lucky it is 0.1 % of the Muslim population world wide.
It's obvious that the majority of Muslims in Australia and the US have no connection to al Quaeda etc. But the degree of support for the WBC and the FRC among typical homophobic Christians isn't clear. I think it would be useful for Christians who oppose giving GLBT people equal rights to clarify what (if any) disagreements they have with the FRC and the WBC.
Just look at the reaction when Bruce Springsteen and David Grohl were singing John Fogerty's (CCR) "Fortunate Son" last night. Fogerty was a drafted soldier in Vietnam..
What was the reaction?
Unfortunately the majority is still attracted to mindless droning. That's why most politicians are using slogans instead of arguments.
So to speak: These days I can (still?) voice my dissent openly. But it does not change a lot.
And this mail was much too long in an age were the average attention span is 140 characters;-)
It's not just twitter. Radio and TV led to sound bites which prevented longer and more informative speeches. But most politicians are on twitter and when they deliberately craft 140 character messages they can be informative. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
It's obvious that the majority of Muslims in Australia and the US have no connection to al Quaeda etc. But the degree of support for the WBC and the FRC among typical homophobic Christians isn't clear. I think it would be useful for Christians who oppose giving GLBT people equal rights to clarify what (if any) disagreements they have with the FRC and the WBC.
I assume you're referring to Westboro Baptist "Church". I don't know what you are referring to in "FRC". If so, WBC are crackpots and I don't agree with ANYTHING they say or do. They may refer to themselves as "Christians" but they are not, because they do not follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. They are not followers of Christ, ergo not Christians. If you are referring to Westpac Banking Corporation, I have a lot more time for them.
On Thu, 13 Nov 2014, Michael Scott <luv@inoz.net> wrote:
It's obvious that the majority of Muslims in Australia and the US have no connection to al Quaeda etc. But the degree of support for the WBC and the FRC among typical homophobic Christians isn't clear. I think it would be useful for Christians who oppose giving GLBT people equal rights to clarify what (if any) disagreements they have with the FRC and the WBC.
I assume you're referring to Westboro Baptist "Church". I don't know what you are referring to in "FRC".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Research_Council
If so, WBC are crackpots and I don't agree with ANYTHING they say or do. They may refer to themselves as "Christians" but they are not, because they do not follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. They are not followers of Christ, ergo not Christians.
That's what the WBC say about all other Christians... ;) -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
From your Wikipedia link "In 2012, a security guard working at the FRC headquarters was shot by a man who saw the organization listed on the SPLC's web site." To quote Russell Coker: "This shows the character of those people." On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 12:28 AM, Russell Coker <russell@coker.com.au> wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2014, Michael Scott <luv@inoz.net> wrote:
It's obvious that the majority of Muslims in Australia and the US have no connection to al Quaeda etc. But the degree of support for the WBC and the FRC among typical homophobic Christians isn't clear. I think it would be useful for Christians who oppose giving GLBT people equal rights to clarify what (if any) disagreements they have with the FRC and the WBC.
I assume you're referring to Westboro Baptist "Church". I don't know what you are referring to in "FRC".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Research_Council
If so, WBC are crackpots and I don't agree with ANYTHING they say or do. They may refer to themselves as "Christians" but they are not, because they do not follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. They are not followers of Christ, ergo not Christians.
That's what the WBC say about all other Christians... ;)
-- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
Russell, You've made a generalised judgement about "those people", you've stretched death threats against a 14yo actor for a show which includes lesbian partners to your subject title "Opposing marriage equality", and YOUR link refers to one of "YOUR" people actually shooting someone!! With all your generalisations, one of YOUR specialties, wanna make a statement for the defense? On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 1:10 AM, Michael Scott <luv@inoz.net> wrote:
From your Wikipedia link "In 2012, a security guard working at the FRC headquarters was shot by a man who saw the organization listed on the SPLC's web site."
To quote Russell Coker: "This shows the character of those people."
On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 12:28 AM, Russell Coker <russell@coker.com.au> wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2014, Michael Scott <luv@inoz.net> wrote:
It's obvious that the majority of Muslims in Australia and the US have no connection to al Quaeda etc. But the degree of support for the WBC and the FRC among typical homophobic Christians isn't clear. I think it would be useful for Christians who oppose giving GLBT people equal rights to clarify what (if any) disagreements they have with the FRC and the WBC.
I assume you're referring to Westboro Baptist "Church". I don't know what you are referring to in "FRC".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Research_Council
If so, WBC are crackpots and I don't agree with ANYTHING they say or do. They may refer to themselves as "Christians" but they are not, because they do not follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. They are not followers of Christ, ergo not Christians.
That's what the WBC say about all other Christians... ;)
-- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
On Fri, 14 Nov 2014, Michael Scott <luv@inoz.net> wrote:
You've made a generalised judgement about "those people", you've stretched death threats against a 14yo actor
That's death threats against a 5yo actress.
for a show which includes lesbian partners to your subject title "Opposing marriage equality", and YOUR link refers to one of "YOUR" people actually shooting someone!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Research_Council # In 2010, the FRC paid $25,000 to congressional lobbyists for what they # described as "Res.1064 Ugandan Resolution Pro-homosexual promotion" in a # lobbying disclosure report.[38] The US House of Representatives resolution # condemned the Uganda Anti-Homosexuality Bill,[39] a bill which, among other # things, would have imposed either the death penalty or life imprisonment for # sexual relations between persons of the same sex # The Southern Poverty Law Center designated the FRC as a hate group in the # Winter 2010 # A shooting incident outside the FRC headquarters in 2012 I've quoted the relevant sections of the Wikipedia page above. After the FRC spent a lot of money lobbing in favor of the death penalty for gay people in Uganda they were listed as a hate group. After that a FRC security guard was shot. Shooting a security guard is the wrong thing to do and the shooter is serving jail time for it. Causing people to be killed by unjust laws in Uganda is also the wrong thing to do. The FRC people are still at large. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
participants (4)
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Michael Scott -
Peter Ross -
Russell Coker -
Trent W. Buck