Fwd: Libs/Labs and other politics, statistics and myths
On Fri, November 7, 2014 10:46 pm, Michael Scott wrote:
No, I just don't believe that the definition of marriage should be changed so that same sex couples can have the same legal rights, which is what they're really after. Otherwise they're after imposing their beliefs on others. I have absolutely no problem with same sex couples having the same legal rights as heterosexual/married couples. What I don't want is the legal definition of marriage being changed.
Right, so because you have a religious definition of marriage, which you presuppose is enshrined in law, you don't want that changed. So why can't your church/denomination/whatever have their own marriage requirements and just leave everyone else alone? Why is that your definition of marriage has to be enshrined in law?
1st Corinthians 6: 9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous[b <https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+6&version=ESV#fen-ESV-28460b> ] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality
I don't know what that word, mutuable, is, but the definition of marriage is actually biblical.
s/mutuable/mutable
Which biblical definition of marriage? Polygamy, as practised by Abraham, Jacob, and David (c.f., 2 Samuel 12:8)?
Or maybe you think think that rape victims should be forced to marry their rapist? (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)
http://www.gotquestions.org/Deuteronomy-22-28-29-marry-rapist.html
Or that a man must marry his brother’s widow? (Deuteronomy 25:5-10; Genesis 38; Ruth 2-4)
http://www.compellingtruth.org/widow-remarry.html
Whatever they have a "concept of", it's either Biblical or it's not.
Which is subject to editions, interpretations, and context. It's biblical to own slaves, biblical to execute people who work on the sabbath, and it's biblical that eating shellfish is an abomination.
It's interesting that you mention "context" yet bring up many topics which require context to make any sense. Slaves, as an example, didn't have Centrelink. They could be slaves or starve. It was economically better for them to be slaves. Please don't plead context and deliberately comment out of context. Current translations of the Bible are considered to be quite accurate, though different translations of different sentences are slightly different, given the difference between literal and meaningful translation from ancient Hebrew and Greek to modern English. The execution of people who worked on the Sabbath was based on a tradition of Jewish law, not Christian. If you had any idea about Christianity, Jewish tradition, you would find that Jesus frowned on the legalism of Jews, that they had developed laws based on their traditions over the centuries which did not glorify God, but their own traditions.
Do you know anything about Jewish and Christian background. Of course if she's of Jewish heritage she's Jewish. I'd never deny that of her. That has nothing to do with her religious beliefs.
So you think that Jews can be secular, but Christians can't?
Jews are of Israeli heritage, whether of the Jewish faith or not. Christians do not have an ethnic heritage.
There are 2 commandments. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your mind and all your soul and all your strength. And Love your neighbour as yourself.
Apparently you don't love your gay neighbours enough to accord them the same legal certificate that you demand as a right for yourself.
I have made my position quite clear on this. As a Christian I cannot SUPPORT same sex marriage. I support their legal rights as much as any others.
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Michael Scott wrote:
Do you know anything about Jewish and Christian background. Of course if she's of Jewish heritage she's Jewish. I'd never deny that of her. That has nothing to do with her religious beliefs. [...] Jews are of Israeli heritage, whether of the Jewish faith or not. Christians do not have an ethnic heritage.
It turns out there's a whole article on this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_is_a_Jew%3F
On Sat, 8 Nov 2014, Michael Scott <luv@inoz.net> wrote:
Current translations of the Bible are considered to be quite accurate, though different translations of different sentences are slightly different, given the difference between literal and meaningful translation from ancient Hebrew and Greek to modern English.
http://taste-of-torah.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/lie-about-lying-with-man- acharei-mot.html There are a number of different Jewish interpretations of that section of the Torah which don't prohibit gay relationships. Above is a link to one. A friend who is a religious Jew (who has read studied the Torah in Hebrew) has a different interpretation in that a man may not use the same bed for straight and gay sex. One thing that every Jewish person can tell you is that the Torah is not supposed to be read without the oral history for interpreting it. Doing so would be like reading Australian law without looking at legal precedent from court rulings.
The execution of people who worked on the Sabbath was based on a tradition of Jewish law, not Christian. If you had any idea about Christianity, Jewish tradition, you would find that Jesus frowned on the legalism of Jews, that they had developed laws based on their traditions over the centuries which did not glorify God, but their own traditions.
I believe that the oral tradition associated with the Torah makes execution unacceptable. It's not that they go against the sections in the Torah that require execution, they merely make the requirements so high that it's just not possible to achieve them. It's similar to the way that we have many obsolete laws that have been countered by court cases and not enforced by police even though they are still on the books.
I have made my position quite clear on this. As a Christian I cannot SUPPORT same sex marriage. I support their legal rights as much as any others.
No you specifically want to deny them the right to get married. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
participants (3)
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Michael Scott -
Russell Coker -
Trent W. Buck