31 May
2012
31 May
'12
12:44 a.m.
Daniel Pittman <daniel(a)rimspace.net> wrote:
...and, of course, Windows doesn't do quote
processing or command line
parsing in any particular standard way, so each process gets the
entire single string with the rest of the command line on it.
Which makes for hilarity as every developer implements command line
splitting and quoting themselves.
And I suppose those developers tend to support it inconsistently.
I've heard that the Windows command line still resembles DOS, i.e., batch
files, DOS commands, drive letters, \ path separators. Is that right? How are
spaces in file names handled if there is no built-in support for quoting?
I'm one of those "never used Windows" people who moved away from Microsoft
products in the DOS days.
31 May
31 May
12:57 a.m.
New subject: Is Windows really this awful?
On Thu, 31 May 2012, Jason White wrote:
I've heard that the Windows command line still
resembles DOS
Do we tend to be the people who
(Trent about the Windows devs)
"looked at unix ten or twenty years ago" | sed 's/unix/Microsoft/g') ?
;-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_PowerShell
regards
Peter
1:22 a.m.
New subject: Is Windows really this awful?
Peter Ross <Peter.Ross(a)bogen.in-berlin.de> wrote:
On Thu, 31 May 2012, Jason White wrote:
No. Note Trent's assertion that his information was of recent origin. This
qualification in his post was intended to deal with exactly the objection that
you're suggesting.
I've heard that the Windows command line still
resembles DOS
Do we tend to be the people who
(Trent about the Windows devs)
"looked at unix ten or twenty years ago" | sed 's/unix/Microsoft/g') ?
;-) 
2:37 a.m.
New subject: Is Windows really this awful?
Jason White wrote:
Peter Ross <Peter.Ross(a)bogen.in-berlin.de>
wrote:
Not quite. There were two orthogonal points:
1. these ancedotes are about win7/8. This was to pre-empt responses
of "well, I'm sure Windows used to be terrible but I think that
doesn't happen anymore".
2. one of those anecdotes, is that most of the devs within MS
haven't touched a unix in decades, and assume that the problems
they had with it back in the 90s are still there in force.
I don't really blame the devs for (2) -- as I said to Petr, it to me
the other way around. But I do blame MS management, because a good
understanding of competing products and prior art helps you make
informed design decisions.
On Thu, 31 May 2012, Jason White wrote:
No. Note Trent's assertion that his information was of recent
origin. This qualification in his post was intended to deal with
exactly the objection that you're suggesting. I've heard that the Windows command line
still resembles DOS
Do we tend to be the people who
(Trent about the Windows devs)
"looked at unix ten or twenty years ago" | sed 's/unix/Microsoft/g') ?
;-)
2:25 a.m.
New subject: Is Windows really this awful?
Peter Ross wrote:
On Thu, 31 May 2012, Jason White wrote:
Yes, I definitely am like that.
For example, apparently nowadays video games require you to have an
internet connection whenever you play them, instead of requiring you
to have the install media in the drive whenever you play them.
Apparently drivers sometimes ship with the OS, rather than having to
install them all separately.
et cetera.
Well, I knew about it back when it was called Monad, but I tend to
dismiss it as uninteresting because I neither like nor "get" OO. I
suppose it reminds me a bit of CommanderS:
Commander S - The shell as a browser
Martin Gasbichler and Eric Knauel
Commander S is a new approach to interactive Unix shells based on
interpretation of command output and cursor-oriented terminal
programs. The user can easily refer to the output of previous
commands when composing new command lines or use interactive
viewers to further explore the command results. Commander S is
extensible by plug-ins for parsing command output and for viewing
command results interactively. The included job control avoids
garbling of the terminal by informing the user in a separate
widget and running background processes in separate
terminals. Commander S is also an interactive front-end to scsh,
the Scheme Shell, and it closely integrates Scheme evaluation with
command execution. The paper also shows how Commander S employs
techniques from object-oriented programming, concurrent
programming, and functional programming techniques.
http://www.deinprogramm.de/scheme-2005/05-knauel/05-knauel.pdf
http://scsh.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/scsh/commander-s/
I've heard that the Windows command line
still resembles DOS
Do we tend to be the people who
(Trent about the Windows devs)
"looked at unix ten or twenty years ago" | sed 's/unix/Microsoft/g') ?
;-) 
4:02 a.m.
New subject: Is Windows really this awful?
For example, apparently nowadays video games require you to have an
internet connection whenever you play them, instead of requiring you to
have the install media in the drive whenever you play them.
It has been done, I think EA is the major culprit here. Much more common is
an internet connection to register the game before you can play it,
typically with Steam. However once you've registered you can play offline
(if anyone actually plays games offline these days), don't need the
installation media in the drive, and can download the game if you ever lose
the disc(s) at no cost beyond the bandwidth.
8:45 a.m.
New subject: Is Windows really this awful?
thelionroars wrote:
I have a vague recollection that steam will chuck a wobbly if you
don't let it have an internet connection at least once a month.
I realize I'm being a bigot, but... while I dislike jockying CDs, I
*REALLY* dislike letting Windows loose on the net.
For example,
apparently nowadays video games require you to have an
internet connection whenever you play them, instead of requiring
you to have the install media in the drive whenever you play them.
It has been done, I think EA is the major culprit here. Much more
common is an internet connection to register the game before you can
play it, typically with Steam. However once you've registered you
can play offline (if anyone actually plays games offline these
days), don't need the installation media in the drive, and can
download the game if you ever lose the disc(s) at no cost beyond the
bandwidth. 
1:52 a.m.
New subject: Is Windows really this awful?
Hi All,
On 31/05/12 10:44, Jason White wrote:
I'm one of those "never used Windows"
people who moved away from Microsoft
products in the DOS days.
Here's some humorous info on the subject, from UNcyclopedia...
And here's a tragically funny story, about a Linux user "trying to
install and run Windows for the first time"...
We're just SO lucky.
Cheers,
Carl
2:44 a.m.
New subject: Is Windows really this awful?
Carl Turney <carl(a)boms.com.au> wrote:
And here's a tragically funny story, about a Linux
user "trying to
install and run Windows for the first time"...
> http://matthias-endler.de/2006/howto-switch-from-linux-to-windows/
That's an interesting article - some aspects have probably changed since then,
but most of the limitations would still be in place for commercial reasons.
Linux is serving my needs and I feel no temptation to switch. If I ever did
switch, I'd choose BSD, Solaris or MacOS over Windows.
3948
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8 comments
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participants (5)
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Carl Turney -
Jason White -
Peter Ross -
thelionroars -
Trent W. Buck