Re: [luv-talk] Is Windows really this awful?
Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net> wrote:
...and, of course, Windows doesn't do quote processing or command line parsing in any particular standard way, so each process gets the entire single string with the rest of the command line on it.
Which makes for hilarity as every developer implements command line splitting and quoting themselves.
And I suppose those developers tend to support it inconsistently. I've heard that the Windows command line still resembles DOS, i.e., batch files, DOS commands, drive letters, \ path separators. Is that right? How are spaces in file names handled if there is no built-in support for quoting? I'm one of those "never used Windows" people who moved away from Microsoft products in the DOS days.
On Thu, 31 May 2012, Jason White wrote:
I've heard that the Windows command line still resembles DOS
Do we tend to be the people who (Trent about the Windows devs) "looked at unix ten or twenty years ago" | sed 's/unix/Microsoft/g') ? ;-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_PowerShell regards Peter
Peter Ross <Peter.Ross@bogen.in-berlin.de> wrote:
On Thu, 31 May 2012, Jason White wrote:
I've heard that the Windows command line still resembles DOS
Do we tend to be the people who
(Trent about the Windows devs)
"looked at unix ten or twenty years ago" | sed 's/unix/Microsoft/g') ? ;-)
No. Note Trent's assertion that his information was of recent origin. This qualification in his post was intended to deal with exactly the objection that you're suggesting.
Jason White wrote:
Peter Ross <Peter.Ross@bogen.in-berlin.de> wrote:
On Thu, 31 May 2012, Jason White wrote:
I've heard that the Windows command line still resembles DOS
Do we tend to be the people who
(Trent about the Windows devs)
"looked at unix ten or twenty years ago" | sed 's/unix/Microsoft/g') ? ;-)
No. Note Trent's assertion that his information was of recent origin. This qualification in his post was intended to deal with exactly the objection that you're suggesting.
Not quite. There were two orthogonal points: 1. these ancedotes are about win7/8. This was to pre-empt responses of "well, I'm sure Windows used to be terrible but I think that doesn't happen anymore". 2. one of those anecdotes, is that most of the devs within MS haven't touched a unix in decades, and assume that the problems they had with it back in the 90s are still there in force. I don't really blame the devs for (2) -- as I said to Petr, it to me the other way around. But I do blame MS management, because a good understanding of competing products and prior art helps you make informed design decisions.
Peter Ross wrote:
On Thu, 31 May 2012, Jason White wrote:
I've heard that the Windows command line still resembles DOS
Do we tend to be the people who (Trent about the Windows devs) "looked at unix ten or twenty years ago" | sed 's/unix/Microsoft/g') ? ;-)
Yes, I definitely am like that. For example, apparently nowadays video games require you to have an internet connection whenever you play them, instead of requiring you to have the install media in the drive whenever you play them. Apparently drivers sometimes ship with the OS, rather than having to install them all separately. et cetera.
Well, I knew about it back when it was called Monad, but I tend to dismiss it as uninteresting because I neither like nor "get" OO. I suppose it reminds me a bit of CommanderS: Commander S - The shell as a browser Martin Gasbichler and Eric Knauel Commander S is a new approach to interactive Unix shells based on interpretation of command output and cursor-oriented terminal programs. The user can easily refer to the output of previous commands when composing new command lines or use interactive viewers to further explore the command results. Commander S is extensible by plug-ins for parsing command output and for viewing command results interactively. The included job control avoids garbling of the terminal by informing the user in a separate widget and running background processes in separate terminals. Commander S is also an interactive front-end to scsh, the Scheme Shell, and it closely integrates Scheme evaluation with command execution. The paper also shows how Commander S employs techniques from object-oriented programming, concurrent programming, and functional programming techniques. http://www.deinprogramm.de/scheme-2005/05-knauel/05-knauel.pdf http://scsh.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/scsh/commander-s/
For example, apparently nowadays video games require you to have an internet connection whenever you play them, instead of requiring you to have the install media in the drive whenever you play them.
It has been done, I think EA is the major culprit here. Much more common is an internet connection to register the game before you can play it, typically with Steam. However once you've registered you can play offline (if anyone actually plays games offline these days), don't need the installation media in the drive, and can download the game if you ever lose the disc(s) at no cost beyond the bandwidth.
thelionroars wrote:
For example, apparently nowadays video games require you to have an internet connection whenever you play them, instead of requiring you to have the install media in the drive whenever you play them.
It has been done, I think EA is the major culprit here. Much more common is an internet connection to register the game before you can play it, typically with Steam. However once you've registered you can play offline (if anyone actually plays games offline these days), don't need the installation media in the drive, and can download the game if you ever lose the disc(s) at no cost beyond the bandwidth.
I have a vague recollection that steam will chuck a wobbly if you don't let it have an internet connection at least once a month. I realize I'm being a bigot, but... while I dislike jockying CDs, I *REALLY* dislike letting Windows loose on the net.
Hi All, On 31/05/12 10:44, Jason White wrote:
I'm one of those "never used Windows" people who moved away from Microsoft products in the DOS days.
Here's some humorous info on the subject, from UNcyclopedia...
And here's a tragically funny story, about a Linux user "trying to install and run Windows for the first time"...
http://matthias-endler.de/2006/howto-switch-from-linux-to-windows/
We're just SO lucky. Cheers, Carl
Carl Turney <carl@boms.com.au> wrote:
And here's a tragically funny story, about a Linux user "trying to install and run Windows for the first time"...
http://matthias-endler.de/2006/howto-switch-from-linux-to-windows/
That's an interesting article - some aspects have probably changed since then, but most of the limitations would still be in place for commercial reasons. Linux is serving my needs and I feel no temptation to switch. If I ever did switch, I'd choose BSD, Solaris or MacOS over Windows.
participants (5)
-
Carl Turney -
Jason White -
Peter Ross -
thelionroars -
Trent W. Buck