On Fri, 17 Aug 2012, Alex Hutton <highspeeddub@gmail.com> wrote:
The problem with immigration into Australia is Australia is a welfare state.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_state From the above Wikipedia page: # In Germany Chancellor Otto von Bismarck created the modern welfare state by # building on a tradition of welfare programs in Prussia and Saxony that began # as early as in the 1840s, and by winning the support of business. In the # 1880s he introduced old age pensions, accident insurance and medical care # that formed the basis of the modern European welfare state. His # paternalistic programs won the support of German industry because its goals # were to win the support of the working classes for the Empire and reduce the # outflow of immigrants to America, where wages were higher but welfare did # not exist.[7][8] Bismarck further won the support of both industry and # skilled workers by his high tariff policies, which protected profits and # wages from American competition, although they alienated the liberal # intellectuals who wanted free trade. That seems a good summary, welfare helps the economy and has been proven to do so for 170 years. The libertarian thing is like a cult, it's clearly not working well for the US, apart from the 1%.
In a welfare state, wealth is redistributed. This is only possible if more money is put in than is taken out. More must be put in than is taken out, rather than an equivalent amount, because the welfare state is intrinsically inefficient; so it must take from us more than it gives to us. In order to survive, the welfare state must ensure that it can continue to operate in this way.
Actually it's efficient to provide some security for the citizens. That encourages people to take financial risks instead of focussing on health care as they do in the US.
Individual refugees aren't necessarily going to be net takers from the welfare state, but, in general, any population increase is going to increase the burden on the welfare state.
Actually you want the population to remain about the same so that there are young people to take care of you when you are old. The Chinese one child policy is putting the future of old people at risk, as would the Australian birth rate if we didn't have immigration. I've already provided this data, you really should read previous messages before replying.
The more people taking from the welfare state, the more the welfare state must take from everyone else. And if it isn't overtly taking money in greater taxes it must exert greater control over people's activities to ensure that what is extracted from the welfare state is less than what is contributed to it .
You might want to compare "corporate welfare" with welfare paid to people.
So if we want to address the root cause of immigration control,let's advocate that the welfare state be wound back.
You clearly don't understand the issues. If someone is at risk of being killed in their home country then the amount of welfare paid somewhere else isn't going to stop them from leaving.
Here are some helpful links: http://archive.mises.org/4891/immigration-plus-welfare-state-equal-police-s tate/ https://mises.org/journals/jls/13_2/13_2_4.pdf http://mises.org/journals/jls/22_1/22_1_3.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_School From the above Wikipedia page: "Austrians reject empirical statistical methods, natural experiments, and constructed experiments as tools applicable to economics". Rejecting evidence isn't really surprising given their connection with the nutty libertarians. I previously posted a link to a paper about the correlation between believing the most nutty conspiracy theories and believing the libertarian ideas. YOu should read it. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/