Scanning, challenging
Hello All, As i have mentioned, I have an Agfa SnapScan, and it appears to have died. I have bought a new scanner, and checked compatibility with the sane website. The Canon CanoScan LiDE 120 is listed as supported, but with scanimage 1.0.27, while the up to date scanimage on Debian 9.7 is 1.0.25. I do have the backports enabled for APT and Synaptic, but it appears to not yet have been backported. I have found some mixed comments on the LinuxQuestions.org website, but from mid 2017, so the cautions may no longer apply. I would appreciate any comments and suggestions from this community. Regards, Mark Trickett
Hello Andrew, On 2/10/19, Andrew Greig via luv-main <luv-main@luv.asn.au> wrote:
Hi Mark,
Canon, with a lot of Linux drivers for their printers and scanners, normally has a link on their website to the OpenSource drivers, try the Canon Website for your product and you may find the link you need.
Andrew Greig
Did a google search and looking at the Canon Europe page, "Available Drivers (0)" which matches other material, all talking about sane and scanimage and versions thereof for Linux and BSD related systems. It looks like 1.0.27 is still in testing, and I am not looking to go there, at least at this time. In the meantime, I am photographing essential documents with a good Pentax digital camera, then cropping and altering the white and shadow balance. I have an old Nokia classic phone, but jiggle too much when trying to photograph with that. I also have a Huawei android phone with no sim, and a Telstra cheap Android tablet, again no sim. Getting a photo off the Huawei is "difficult", and the cheap Telstra tablet is very difficult to get to respond to the screen presses, getting it to take the photo can be a frustrating hour, and still no image. I know why it has such a poor reputation. Regards, Mark Trickett
Hello Andrew, On 2/10/19, Andrew Greig via luv-main <luv-main@luv.asn.au> wrote:
On 10/2/19 4:25 pm, Mark Trickett via luv-main wrote:
Snip
Sorry Mark,
There is more, we have steak knives.
Use AirDroid to transfer data from the HuaWei to your Linux Box, app on the phone (D/L the app over wi-fi) and web Interface on the Linux box. A QR code on the Linux Box is scanned by the AirDroid app on the phone and connects the two devices, very slick.
Read again, not having connectivity. I am transferring image files by USB stick, when I can. I tried to set up bluetooth, but issues with the computer end. Also the tablet is very frustrating. Quality is not there, built to a price, not a standard, reminds me of Tony Abbot, in a very bad way. Have been reading and reading. Someone has had problems, then it just worked with Ubuntu 17.10, but may have carried over a PPA from the previous version when he upgraded (not a clean install). Another clue might be that the USB printer kernel driver may be preventing scanimage from seeing the scanner. I can look at blacklisting the kernel module, but then may need to undo and reboot if I set up a USB connected printer, and have to choose between printing and scanning. That will get resolved, eventually. Regards, Mark Trickett
On Sun, Feb 10, 2019 at 03:50:30PM +1100, Mark Trickett wrote:
As i have mentioned, I have an Agfa SnapScan, and it appears to have died. I have bought a new scanner, and checked compatibility with the sane website. The Canon CanoScan LiDE 120 is listed as supported, but with scanimage 1.0.27, while the up to date scanimage on Debian 9.7 is 1.0.25.
the sane-utils (v 1.0.27) package in debian sid has the following dependencies: Depends: adduser, lsb-base (>= 3.0-6), update-inetd, debconf (>= 0.5) | debconf-2.0, libavahi-client3 (>= 0.6.16), libavahi-common3 (>= 0.6.16), libc6 (>= 2.15), libieee1284-3, libjpeg62-turbo (>= 1.3.1), libpng16-16 (>= 1.6.2-1), libsane (>= 1.0.27), libsystemd0, libusb-1.0-0 (>= 2:1.0.8) libsane 1.0.27 doesn't have any dependencies. As long as the other installed library packages are at least equal to the versions mentioned above, you should be able to just download the .deb files for sane-utils and libsane and install them with dpkg. If not, download and update them (and any of THEIR dependencies) before installing sane-utils. i.e. download the following from your nearest debian mirror: .../debian/pool/main/s/sane-backends/libsane_1.0.27-3.1_amd64.deb .../debian/pool/main/s/sane-backends/sane-utils_1.0.27-3.1_amd64.deb and install them (as root) with: dpkg -iBE libsane_1.0.27-3.1_amd64.deb sane-utils_1.0.27-3.1_amd64.deb (or _i386.deb if you're running on an ancient CPU) Alternatively, download the debianised source for sane-utils and rebuild for debian 9. i.e. make your own backport. craig PS: I note that systemd has spread its monstrous tentacles even into userland apps like sane-utils. This is why systemd is a menace - it's already nearly impossible to avoid and will soon be **actually** impossible for distros that went down the systemd path of insanity to ever disentangle themselves from RedHat's linux takeover bid. FFS! If systemd confined itself to just doing init and didn't assimilate or infect everything else withing reach, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But this shit really makes me hate it. -- craig sanders <cas@taz.net.au>
On 10/2/19 6:39 pm, Craig Sanders via luv-main wrote:
FFS! If systemd confined itself to just doing init and didn't assimilate or infect everything else withing reach, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But this shit really makes me hate it.
The Tragedy of systemd https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo Share and enjoy, Andrew
Hello Andrew, On 2/10/19, Andrew Pam via luv-main <luv-main@luv.asn.au> wrote:
On 10/2/19 6:39 pm, Craig Sanders via luv-main wrote:
FFS! If systemd confined itself to just doing init and didn't assimilate or infect everything else withing reach, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But this shit really makes me hate it.
The Tragedy of systemd https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo
Had to get the URL to another PC, typed it in, then carefully checked the URL, yes one typo, but correct and the video is not available, still. Searched youtube for Lennart Poettering, and then "The Tragedy of Systemd" came up in the queue when watching Lennart at another event. For your interest, I have a PDP8A, but not been running for about three decades. I know others with more DEC equipment. I have the Bell Telephone Unix manuals, volume 1 covers the commands, volume 2 is the programming behind it all. Lennart has dismissed his critics as not knowing the "true Unix Way". it is clear he is the one who does not know. it is a lot of small bits working together, not a big monolithic multifunction monster. Regards, Mark Trickett
Hello Andrew, On 2/10/19, Andrew Pam <andrew@sericyb.com.au> wrote:
On 10/2/19 8:24 pm, Mark Trickett wrote:
For your interest, I have a PDP8A, but not been running for about three decades.
I enjoyed using a PDP-8/A with ASR-33 and KSR-33 teletypes at high school! We also had an LSI-11.
I have at least one Teletype 33 here, and a DEC Pro, which was a bit bigger than the DEC Rainbow and has a LSI-11 processor. There was a version of DEC Ultrix for it, but I never managed to get hold of it. I have a heap of the Rainbows, they are a dual asymmetric CPU machine, a Z80 and a 8088 and would take 896K of RAM, not the pissy 640K of the IBM. I started with CP/M 86/80, then managed to get DOS. Some software, I had in versions for both the OSes.
Cheers, Andrew
Regards, Mark Trickett
Mark Trickett via luv-main <luv-main@luv.asn.au> writes:
The Tragedy of systemd https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo
Had to get the URL to another PC, typed it in, then carefully checked the URL, yes one typo, but correct and the video is not available, still.
The URL works fine for me... Maybe you mistyped it? -- Brian May <brian@linuxpenguins.xyz> https://linuxpenguins.xyz/brian/
Hello Craig, it has been a week of long days as a Traffic Controller, and now getting back to this. On 2/10/19, Craig Sanders via luv-main <luv-main@luv.asn.au> wrote:
On Sun, Feb 10, 2019 at 03:50:30PM +1100, Mark Trickett wrote:
As i have mentioned, I have an Agfa SnapScan, and it appears to have died. I have bought a new scanner, and checked compatibility with the sane website. The Canon CanoScan LiDE 120 is listed as supported, but with scanimage 1.0.27, while the up to date scanimage on Debian 9.7 is 1.0.25.
the sane-utils (v 1.0.27) package in debian sid has the following dependencies:
Depends: adduser, lsb-base (>= 3.0-6), update-inetd, debconf (>= 0.5) | debconf-2.0, libavahi-client3 (>= 0.6.16), libavahi-common3 (>= 0.6.16), libc6 (>= 2.15), libieee1284-3, libjpeg62-turbo (>= 1.3.1), libpng16-16 (>= 1.6.2-1), libsane (>= 1.0.27), libsystemd0, libusb-1.0-0 (>= 2:1.0.8)
Depends: adduser, 3.115 lsb-base (>= 3.0-6), 9.20161125 update-inetd, 4.44 debconf (>= 0.5) | debconf-2.0, 1.5.61 libavahi-client3 (>= 0.6.16), 0.6.32-2 libavahi-common3 (>= 0.6.16), 0.6.32-2 libc6 (>= 2.15), 2.24-11+deb9u3 update needed libieee1284-3, 0.2.11-13 libjpeg62-turbo (>= 1.3.1), 1:1.5.1-2 libpng16-16 (>= 1.6.2-1), 1.6.28-1 libsane (>= 1.0.27), 1.0.25-4.1 update needed libsystemd0, 232-25+deb9u8 libusb-1.0-0 (>= 2:1.0.8) 2:1.0.21-1
libsane 1.0.27 doesn't have any dependencies.
So I have two packages to update, plus any dependencies of libc6 of the later version. Now to learn how to find out what that might be. And then to see where that leads. Then to install the sane-utils (v 1.0.27) package. The capacity to manage and do this is why I am using Debian, but still not sufficiently familiar with all of it. I learn by doing, but have not done enough of it to know and remember, yet.
As long as the other installed library packages are at least equal to the versions mentioned above, you should be able to just download the .deb files for sane-utils and libsane and install them with dpkg. If not, download and update them (and any of THEIR dependencies) before installing sane-utils.
i.e. download the following from your nearest debian mirror:
.../debian/pool/main/s/sane-backends/libsane_1.0.27-3.1_amd64.deb .../debian/pool/main/s/sane-backends/sane-utils_1.0.27-3.1_amd64.deb
and install them (as root) with:
dpkg -iBE libsane_1.0.27-3.1_amd64.deb sane-utils_1.0.27-3.1_amd64.deb
(or _i386.deb if you're running on an ancient CPU)
It is a 64 bit system, thanks to Russell Coker.
Alternatively, download the debianised source for sane-utils and rebuild for debian 9. i.e. make your own backport.
That has potential, but would need the backport of the libsane as well. I am not yet sure of the development and build environment, nor whether I have the necessary installed yet.
craig
PS: I note that systemd has spread its monstrous tentacles even into userland apps like sane-utils. This is why systemd is a menace - it's already nearly impossible to avoid and will soon be **actually** impossible for distros that went down the systemd path of insanity to ever disentangle themselves from RedHat's linux takeover bid.
I watched the linked video from linux.conf.au.2019, and some of the concepts behind SystemD have merit, but I do not like or agree with the implementation. While it is a number of small binaries, the package as a whole is monolithic, and I find it poorly documented. I might have troubles with the older Init, but it is documented and reasonably well known, including the deficiencies.
FFS! If systemd confined itself to just doing init and didn't assimilate or infect everything else withing reach, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But this shit really makes me hate it.
I would have less of an issue with it if they did not take an all or nothing approach, a take no prisoners approach. It reminds me of a part of Zork, "you are in a maze of twisty little passages that are all alike". For those who are not familiar with it, the learning curve is too steep.
-- craig sanders <cas@taz.net.au>
Regards, Mark Trickett
On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 03:01:35PM +1100, Mark Trickett wrote:
So I have two packages to update, plus any dependencies of libc6 of the later version. Now to learn how to find out what that might be. And then to see where that leads. Then to install the sane-utils (v 1.0.27) package. The capacity to manage and do this is why I am using Debian, but still not sufficiently familiar with all of it. I learn by doing, but have not done enough of it to know and remember, yet.
I have no idea what version of libc6 you have installed (the last stable release was ages ago, and i run sid aka unstable anyway) but if you have to upgrade libc6 to install the new sane packages, then that will trigger an enormous cascade of other upgrades, likely to result in a lot of breakage. To put it mildly, this is more trouble than it's worth. It would be easier to just upgrade to 'sid' or 'testing'. Or compile backports for the SANE packages yourself. To install packages from sid or testing with apt, edit your sources.list file (either /etc/apt/sources.list or a file under /etc/apt/sources.list.d) and copy the line that lists "stable". change the copy to "testing" or "unstable". BTW, you can do a partial upgrade to either sid or testing by: 1. adding entries for either (or both) of them to your sources.list. e.g. deb http://your.nearest.debian.mirror/debian/ stable main non-free contrib deb http://your.nearest.debian.mirror/debian/ testing main non-free contrib deb http://your.nearest.debian.mirror/debian/ unstable main non-free contrib 2. and then adding the following to /etc/apt/apt.conf (or to a file under /etc/apt/apt.conf.d): APT::Default-Release "stable"; That makes packages from sid or testing available, but they will NOT be installed unless you explicitly tell apt to install them with the '-t' (aka '--target-release') option. e.g. apt-get update apt-get -V -d -u -t unstable install sane-utils libsane That will verbosely show which packages *would* be upgraded and download them. Verify that the command won't do anything unexpected (like removing other packages - such as your desktop environment - or upgrading 1000 other packages) and then run the same command without the "-V" or "-d" options to actually install them. As a rule of thumb: if an 'apt-get -t unstable install' wants to remove any packages or upgrade/install lots of other packages, then abort the upgrade. BTW. from the apt-get man page: -t, --target-release, --default-release This option controls the default input to the policy engine; it creates a default pin at priority 990 using the specified release string. This overrides the general settings in /etc/apt/preferences. Specifically pinned packages are not affected by the value of this option. In short, this option lets you have simple control over which distribution packages will be retrieved from. Some common examples might be -t '2.1*', -t unstable or -t sid. Configuration Item: APT::Default-Release; see also the apt_preferences(5) manual page. NOTE: it is generally better to upgrade entirely to testing or sid (or backport a required package to stable) than it is to run a combination of stable + some packages from testing/unstable. You're far less likely to run into library quirks and version incompatibilities that way.
Alternatively, download the debianised source for sane-utils and rebuild for debian 9. i.e. make your own backport.
That has potential, but would need the backport of the libsane as well. I am not yet sure of the development and build environment, nor whether I have the necessary installed yet.
Both the sane-utils and libsane packages are built from the same source package, "sane-backends". BTW, if you use dpkg-buildpackage to build the packages, it will warn you if any build-dependencies are not met. If any of this is outside your comfort zone, then it would be better to just wait until either the new sane packages are in debian backports or until you upgrade to the next debian stable release. or ask someone you trust who runs debian stable to backport them for you. If you want to extend your "comfort zone" then install debian stable into a VM and try either upgrading to testing or sid in there, or back-porting sane-backends inside the VM. That way you can get some practice without putting your system at risk. VMs are great for experimenting with stuff or learning new stuff that is potentially dangerous. Make one stable VM and then clone it for every new experiment - if it breaks, it's no big deal: just trash it and make another clone to try again. The easiest way to play with VMs is by installing the libvirt packages, allowing you to create and manipulate VMs and VM images with 'virsh' commands. The virt-manager package provides a GUI wrapper around virsh, which is good enough for most usage - there's a lot that virsh can do that virt-manager can't, but you're very unlikely to need any of those obscure/advanced features. craig -- craig sanders <cas@taz.net.au>
Hello Craig, Many thanks, I am learning, but whether I can remember, especially as not doing this sort of thing except infrequently, is another matter. I do want to learn, and remember, but some of the detail is slipping. On 2/16/19, Craig Sanders via luv-main <luv-main@luv.asn.au> wrote:
On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 03:01:35PM +1100, Mark Trickett wrote:
So I have two packages to update, plus any dependencies of libc6 of the later version. Now to learn how to find out what that might be. And then to see where that leads. Then to install the sane-utils (v 1.0.27) package. The capacity to manage and do this is why I am using Debian, but still not sufficiently familiar with all of it. I learn by doing, but have not done enough of it to know and remember, yet.
I have no idea what version of libc6 you have installed (the last stable release was ages ago, and i run sid aka unstable anyway) but if you have to upgrade libc6 to install the new sane packages, then that will trigger an enormous cascade of other upgrades, likely to result in a lot of breakage.
Require libc6 (>= 2.15), installed is 2.24-11+deb9u3. Think I was having a brain fart, looks like might not need to upgrade that. As to running sid, how stable do you find it, and how much effort to "unbreak" it when an update does break it?
To put it mildly, this is more trouble than it's worth.
It would be easier to just upgrade to 'sid' or 'testing'. Or compile backports for the SANE packages yourself.
I am seriously looking at that, scratching my head and getting splinters.
To install packages from sid or testing with apt, edit your sources.list file (either /etc/apt/sources.list or a file under /etc/apt/sources.list.d) and copy the line that lists "stable". change the copy to "testing" or "unstable".
BTW, you can do a partial upgrade to either sid or testing by:
1. adding entries for either (or both) of them to your sources.list. e.g.
deb http://your.nearest.debian.mirror/debian/ stable main non-free contrib deb http://your.nearest.debian.mirror/debian/ testing main non-free contrib deb http://your.nearest.debian.mirror/debian/ unstable main non-free contrib
2. and then adding the following to /etc/apt/apt.conf (or to a file under /etc/apt/apt.conf.d):
APT::Default-Release "stable";
That makes packages from sid or testing available, but they will NOT be installed unless you explicitly tell apt to install them with the '-t' (aka '--target-release') option. e.g.
apt-get update apt-get -V -d -u -t unstable install sane-utils libsane
That will verbosely show which packages *would* be upgraded and download them.
Verify that the command won't do anything unexpected (like removing other packages - such as your desktop environment - or upgrading 1000 other packages) and then run the same command without the "-V" or "-d" options to actually install them.
This looks good, will need to create /etc/apt/apt.conf though, should do as root for correct ownership and security.
As a rule of thumb: if an 'apt-get -t unstable install' wants to remove any packages or upgrade/install lots of other packages, then abort the upgrade.
BTW. from the apt-get man page:
-t, --target-release, --default-release
This option controls the default input to the policy engine; it creates a default pin at priority 990 using the specified release string. This overrides the general settings in /etc/apt/preferences. Specifically pinned packages are not affected by the value of this option. In short, this option lets you have simple control over which distribution packages will be retrieved from. Some common examples might be -t '2.1*', -t unstable or -t sid. Configuration Item: APT::Default-Release; see also the apt_preferences(5) manual page.
NOTE: it is generally better to upgrade entirely to testing or sid (or backport a required package to stable) than it is to run a combination of stable + some packages from testing/unstable. You're far less likely to run into library quirks and version incompatibilities that way.
Have been reading this, repeatedly, and do understand. The best option will be for when it is released or official backport, but I need the scanner for tax documents due soon, and time cards. Hence wanting to do this weekend, if I can. I will try, but did hear helicopters, and near Bright. Bushfire is a concern, more than software, will be watching out on several matters.
Alternatively, download the debianised source for sane-utils and rebuild for debian 9. i.e. make your own backport.
That has potential, but would need the backport of the libsane as well. I am not yet sure of the development and build environment, nor whether I have the necessary installed yet.
Both the sane-utils and libsane packages are built from the same source package, "sane-backends".
BTW, if you use dpkg-buildpackage to build the packages, it will warn you if any build-dependencies are not met.
This is good to know, and what I shall start chasing for the moment.
If any of this is outside your comfort zone, then it would be better to just wait until either the new sane packages are in debian backports or until you upgrade to the next debian stable release. or ask someone you trust who runs debian stable to backport them for you.
If you want to extend your "comfort zone" then install debian stable into a VM and try either upgrading to testing or sid in there, or back-porting sane-backends inside the VM. That way you can get some practice without putting your system at risk. VMs are great for experimenting with stuff or learning new stuff that is potentially dangerous. Make one stable VM and then clone it for every new experiment - if it breaks, it's no big deal: just trash it and make another clone to try again.
I would, but not enough computer to run without thrashing. I would like a 16 or 32 Gb of memory machine, but finances are still tight. I would really like to get to the workshops, but even just the fuel is a stretch from NE Vic at the moment.
The easiest way to play with VMs is by installing the libvirt packages, allowing you to create and manipulate VMs and VM images with 'virsh' commands. The virt-manager package provides a GUI wrapper around virsh, which is good enough for most usage - there's a lot that virsh can do that virt-manager can't, but you're very unlikely to need any of those obscure/advanced features.
craig
I will make some more efforts and see where I get to, but shall turn off the radio, I do not like Tom Switzer and "Between the Lines" on Radio National, but almost everything else. Many thanks, Mark Trickett
Hello Craig,
To install packages from sid or testing with apt, edit your sources.list file (either /etc/apt/sources.list or a file under /etc/apt/sources.list.d) and copy the line that lists "stable". change the copy to "testing" or "unstable".
BTW, you can do a partial upgrade to either sid or testing by:
1. adding entries for either (or both) of them to your sources.list. e.g.
deb http://your.nearest.debian.mirror/debian/ stable main non-free contrib deb http://your.nearest.debian.mirror/debian/ testing main non-free contrib deb http://your.nearest.debian.mirror/debian/ unstable main non-free contrib
2. and then adding the following to /etc/apt/apt.conf (or to a file under /etc/apt/apt.conf.d):
APT::Default-Release "stable";
That makes packages from sid or testing available, but they will NOT be installed unless you explicitly tell apt to install them with the '-t' (aka '--target-release') option. e.g.
apt-get update apt-get -V -d -u -t unstable install sane-utils libsane
That will verbosely show which packages *would* be upgraded and download them.
Done this, and "interesting" results. Will have to try the backport route. Unmet dependencies: libkf5coreaddons5 : Breaks : libkf5auth5 (< 5.54) but 5.28.0-2 is to be installed Breaks : libkf5globalaccel-bin (<5.54) but 5.28.0-2 is to be installed libkf5crash5 : Breaks : libkf5globalaccel-bin (<5.54) but 5.28.0-2 is to be installed
Verify that the command won't do anything unexpected (like removing other packages - such as your desktop environment - or upgrading 1000 other packages) and then run the same command without the "-V" or "-d" options to actually install them.
As a rule of thumb: if an 'apt-get -t unstable install' wants to remove any packages or upgrade/install lots of other packages, then abort the upgrade.
Will not force this. BTW. from the apt-get man page:
-t, --target-release, --default-release
This option controls the default input to the policy engine; it creates a default pin at priority 990 using the specified release string. This overrides the general settings in /etc/apt/preferences. Specifically pinned packages are not affected by the value of this option. In short, this option lets you have simple control over which distribution packages will be retrieved from. Some common examples might be -t '2.1*', -t unstable or -t sid. Configuration Item: APT::Default-Release; see also the apt_preferences(5) manual page.
NOTE: it is generally better to upgrade entirely to testing or sid (or backport a required package to stable) than it is to run a combination of stable + some packages from testing/unstable. You're far less likely to run into library quirks and version incompatibilities that way.
Was expecting that, but hoping maybe not.
Alternatively, download the debianised source for sane-utils and rebuild for debian 9. i.e. make your own backport.
That has potential, but would need the backport of the libsane as well. I am not yet sure of the development and build environment, nor whether I have the necessary installed yet.
Both the sane-utils and libsane packages are built from the same source package, "sane-backends".
BTW, if you use dpkg-buildpackage to build the packages, it will warn you if any build-dependencies are not met.
About to go looking at this. Now to sort out the best way to get the source package, and how to do the build, and whether I have the full toolchain (compiler, make etc) to do. I have seen bits and pieces on web pages, as well as your very good details, but it is still beyond prior experience. I am up for attempting to stretch what I can do. I have installed apt-src and now go looking for the right version of sane-backends and see whether I can build it.
If any of this is outside your comfort zone, then it would be better to just wait until either the new sane packages are in debian backports or until you upgrade to the next debian stable release. or ask someone you trust who runs debian stable to backport them for you.
You and Russell Coker are the ones I trust on competence, but both of you have a lot else to do, and may well not have a Debian 9.7 machine that you can do it on. My Debian 9.7 machine is currently up to date, but definitely learning and stretching. Now to sort out selecting the right dist for the apt-src command, hopefully follows the same pattern as the apt-get command.
craig
Regards, Mark Trickett
Hello Craig, Have been trying to grab the source for sane-utils or sane-backends, but no go yet. Command line was :- sudo apt-get -t experimental source sane-backends and it cannot find a source package for sane-backends. I do have a sources line for experimental in /etc/apt/sources.list Unstable appears to not be the 1.0.27 I am looking for. it is challenging. I did go looking for source with google and firefox, but what I could find was the compiled binary packages. I might be able to find non debianised sources, but that really does go beyond what I can currently do. Many thanks for the help so far. regards, Mark Trickett
participants (5)
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Andrew Greig -
Andrew Pam -
Brian May -
Craig Sanders -
Mark Trickett