I'm trying to cut down on the number of computers in my house. Here's the first one I'm offering free to anyone who wants it: Compaq Evo N410c laptop with docking bay and a D-Link DWL-G630 PC-card WiFi adapter 1.2GHz Pentium III-M, 1GB RAM, 63GB HDD, 1024x768 LCD with ATI Radeon Mobility M6 LY chipset Ports: VGA, audio, 2xUSB, IRDA, internal modem, Ethernet, PC-card slot, serial, parallel and composite video out (!) The docking bay has stereo speakers, 2x drive bays with a DVD drive and a 3.5" floppy drive and the following ports: VGA, audio, 2xUSB, Ethernet, PS/2 keyboard and mouse, serial and parallel. I can bring it to the LUV meeting on Tuesday night, or you can pick it up from my office in North Richmond during office hours next week. Cheers, Andrew
On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 04:05:19 PM Andrew Pam via luv-main wrote:
1.2GHz Pentium III-M, 1GB RAM, 63GB HDD, 1024x768 LCD with ATI Radeon Mobility M6 LY chipset Ports: VGA, audio, 2xUSB, IRDA, internal modem, Ethernet, PC-card slot, serial, parallel and composite video out (!)
The hardware library had RAM that would work in that era of laptop last time I checked. So it can probably be expanded to at least 1.5G. Also I might have a spare laptop IDE hard drive that is larger than 63G. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
A little googling shows "Sweet Home 3D", but it is as slow as a wet week, reportedly. "Google Sketchup" requires wine, and I just don't need two applications to learn. A simple drawing utility which will allow me to generate lines and boxes of keyboard-entered dimensions, drag them (or select and move a keyboard-entered offset) would really do the trick. Although being able to rotate lines would also be useful for the roof. Ah ... there's LibreCAD. Does anyone know if that's so fancy that the learning curve is too long to be worth it for single-use? (Seems to be more for mechanical drawings.) AHA, I've just opened LibreOffice Draw for the first time, and spent an hour to get it to draw a box. (It defaults to a line width of 0, so nothing appears. Then it defaults to goddam fill. Then ... ) BUT, is there a way to move a line to a keyboard-entered position? Mouse-fiddling to a precise point is such a time-wasting torture that it's just not worth pursuing, I find.¹ After a few apt-cache searches, I've stumbled across: sketch - 3D diagrams for TeX from scene description language sketch-doc - Extra documentation for the sketch 3D line drawing system That seems overkill, with likely excessive learning curve, but ought to place objects at defined positions, with defined dimensions. These are unknowns: ardesia - free digital sketchpad software tetradraw - ANSI drawing and viewing utility Erik ¹ Eagle (PCB CAD) does that. I'm almost tempted to use it - I could use different track widths for different envelopes.
Hi Erik, No-one has answered, so I'll give it a go. .. although it's been a few years since I last played in this space. On 28/04/17 16:22, Erik Christiansen via luv-main wrote:
A simple drawing utility which will allow me to generate lines and boxes of keyboard-entered dimensions, drag them (or select and move a keyboard-entered offset) would really do the trick. Although being able to rotate lines would also be useful for the roof. I take this to mean 2D drawing, ..you have no interest in 3D. so will only answer on this basis
Ah ... there's LibreCAD. Does anyone know if that's so fancy that the learning curve is too long to be worth it for single-use? (Seems to be more for mechanical drawings.) I have not used LibreCAD, .. but a number of years ago I used QCAD, ... LibreCAD is a fork of community edition of QCAD, although as I understand both products have moved on from that position, so now unsure how they differ. However when I used QCAD a number of years ago, I found it was quite capable to draw my 2D floor plans and 2d elevations, and I could enter the lines position, length angle all from the keyboard. To start with there was a bit of a learning curve, understanding how to switch into command mode, benefits of working in layers, and there is a million icons around the page that do useful stuff, but till you learn what they do they remain a mystery. You could invest a lot of time learning all the ins and outs. But the good news is to lay down a line where you want it and to the length you want it is simple enough.
Most floor plans need to add dimensions, the advantage with a cad program is how easy that is (possibly on another layer so you can hide them when you dont want them) So I just installed LibreCAD and the interface seems similar to what I used previously, and I was able to quickly lay down a couple of lines with the keyboard using commands I learnt in QCAD. I seem to remember something quirky in QCAD in having to set page size before starting my drawing, otherwise it might not fit on my print out, .. I cant quite remember what that was, .. I dont know how LibreCAD handles that but it might pay for you to experiment with laying down a couple of dimensions to size and then see if you can get the output you want before putting a lot of effort into drawing details.
AHA, I've just opened LibreOffice Draw for the first time, and spent an hour to get it to draw a box. (It defaults to a line width of 0, so nothing appears. Then it defaults to goddam fill. Then ... ) I love LibreDraw for drawing block diagrams at work , and while I did use it to draw a floor plan once I just wouldn't recommend it, you will spend a lot of time going into dialog boxes altering position and size it you didn't get it right the first time with the mouse.
BUT, is there a way to move a line to a keyboard-entered position? Mouse-fiddling to a precise point is such a time-wasting torture that it's just not worth pursuing, I find. In my mind the drafting/mechanical drawing world has moved on from the days of 2d drawing into 3d drawing / modeling , so it seems like the 2D drawing tools are not getting a lot of love nowdays.
My suggestion for a simple one off drafting task, the small effort you need to put in to learn the basics in LibreCAD is worth it for the productivity you will gain in entering your lines and dimensions from the command line... YMMV Cheers, and good luck Steve
On 29.04.17 08:43, Stephen GEORGE via luv-main wrote:
I have not used LibreCAD, .. but a number of years ago I used QCAD, ... LibreCAD is a fork of community edition of QCAD, although as I understand both products have moved on from that position, so now unsure how they differ. However when I used QCAD a number of years ago, I found it was quite capable to draw my 2D floor plans and 2d elevations, and I could enter the lines position, length angle all from the keyboard. To start with there was a bit of a learning curve, understanding how to switch into command mode, benefits of working in layers, and there is a million icons around the page that do useful stuff, but till you learn what they do they remain a mystery. You could invest a lot of time learning all the ins and outs. But the good news is to lay down a line where you want it and to the length you want it is simple enough.
Thank you for taking an interest, Stephen. I've spent a lot of time becoming fluent in Eagle, for schematic capture and PCB layouts. It's the tedium and frustration of repeating that for a one-off 2D CAD job which doesn't quite compute. It may seem loony, but I've just spent several hours teaching myself enough postscript to draw a stud, a stud_bay, and a stud_wall, taking a parameter for length. A few more minutes of effort gave a double_stud_wall, with offset studs for greater insulation. Placing four of them, with rotation, makes a room. A few more hours should see windows & doors added. Also thrown in is automated counting of the studs used - i.e. the beginnings of framing estimation. Importantly, I'm stimulated rather than being frazzled by an uncooperative and inscrutable GUI.
Most floor plans need to add dimensions, the advantage with a cad program is how easy that is (possibly on another layer so you can hide them when you dont want them)
Falling asleep last night, I considered picking up the wall length parameter, for auto-annotation of the dimension. But I first have to bone up on postscript conditionals, because some walls shouldn't be dimensioned. A separate dimension primitive is elementary.
So I just installed LibreCAD and the interface seems similar to what I used previously, and I was able to quickly lay down a couple of lines with the keyboard using commands I learnt in QCAD.
I seem to remember something quirky in QCAD in having to set page size before starting my drawing, otherwise it might not fit on my print out, .. I cant quite remember what that was, .. I dont know how LibreCAD handles that but it might pay for you to experiment with laying down a couple of dimensions to size and then see if you can get the output you want before putting a lot of effort into drawing details.
There is a little bit more display iteration with postscript, particularly while developing primitives. Hopefully I don't meet some horrible gotcha further down the track, but it is neat game to play so far, and the results are very nice. Erik
Hello Erik, On 4/29/17, Erik Christiansen via luv-main <luv-main@luv.asn.au> wrote:
On 29.04.17 08:43, Stephen GEORGE via luv-main wrote:
I have not used LibreCAD, .. but a number of years ago I used QCAD, ... LibreCAD is a fork of community edition of QCAD, although as I understand both products have moved on from that position, so now unsure how they differ. However when I used QCAD a number of years ago, I found it was quite capable to draw my 2D floor plans and 2d elevations, and I could enter the lines position, length angle all from the keyboard. To start with there was a bit of a learning curve, understanding how to switch into command mode, benefits of working in layers, and there is a million icons around the page that do useful stuff, but till you learn what they do they remain a mystery. You could invest a lot of time learning all the ins and outs. But the good news is to lay down a line where you want it and to the length you want it is simple enough.
Thank you for taking an interest, Stephen.
I've spent a lot of time becoming fluent in Eagle, for schematic capture and PCB layouts. It's the tedium and frustration of repeating that for a one-off 2D CAD job which doesn't quite compute.
It may seem loony, but I've just spent several hours teaching myself enough postscript to draw a stud, a stud_bay, and a stud_wall, taking a parameter for length. A few more minutes of effort gave a double_stud_wall, with offset studs for greater insulation. Placing four of them, with rotation, makes a room. A few more hours should see windows & doors added. Also thrown in is automated counting of the studs used - i.e. the beginnings of framing estimation. Importantly, I'm stimulated rather than being frazzled by an uncooperative and inscrutable GUI.
Postscript is very powerful, it is a full programming language, but oriented to display, it can do all the general calculations, but sorting that out can be "interesting" and "challenging", devising suitable subroutines with enough flexibility is not easy. I have played around with bits and pieces, I take my hat off to you.
Most floor plans need to add dimensions, the advantage with a cad program is how easy that is (possibly on another layer so you can hide them when you dont want them)
Falling asleep last night, I considered picking up the wall length parameter, for auto-annotation of the dimension. But I first have to bone up on postscript conditionals, because some walls shouldn't be dimensioned. A separate dimension primitive is elementary.
So I just installed LibreCAD and the interface seems similar to what I used previously, and I was able to quickly lay down a couple of lines with the keyboard using commands I learnt in QCAD.
I seem to remember something quirky in QCAD in having to set page size before starting my drawing, otherwise it might not fit on my print out, .. I cant quite remember what that was, .. I dont know how LibreCAD handles that but it might pay for you to experiment with laying down a couple of dimensions to size and then see if you can get the output you want before putting a lot of effort into drawing details.
There is a little bit more display iteration with postscript, particularly while developing primitives.
Hopefully I don't meet some horrible gotcha further down the track, but it is neat game to play so far, and the results are very nice.
Just watch what you are doing with care, and it can do remarkable things. One of the critical things is to do the detail design in your head first, cladding thicknesses, fasteners, joints, particularly the complex ones. If you can envisage the detail of the build in your head, then you can get that onto paper somehow. I did drafting as part of a Mechanical Engineering degree. Putting in the detail is where you find out whether the drawing is correct and functional.
Erik
Regards, Mark Trickett
On 29.04.17 18:43, Mark Trickett via luv-main wrote:
Just watch what you are doing with care, and it can do remarkable things. One of the critical things is to do the detail design in your head first, cladding thicknesses, fasteners, joints, particularly the complex ones. If you can envisage the detail of the build in your head, then you can get that onto paper somehow. I did drafting as part of a Mechanical Engineering degree. Putting in the detail is where you find out whether the drawing is correct and functional.
Yes, you've hit the nail on the head there. I'd laboriously drawn it up on graph paper, but with strawbale-unit dimensions, and with a great fat strawbale skin. I'm too old to do another DIY owner-builder build, and that's the only way that strawbale is viable. Now it's back to standard building units and materials. So rather than do it again with pencil & paper, postscript allows me to automate detail right down to double studs around wall openings - while counting how many end up being used. Oh-oh, just remembered that the cladding comes in 1200 mm wide sheets - so replace the 450 mm stud spacing (one variable) and the stud_wall procedure moves the studs to sheet edges and centres. OK, there's a slow initial primitive-building & tweaking phase, but after that it should fly - in a most flexible folding swiss army knife fashion. Add vim folding markers in the comments, and I can have folding text in my manually generated postscript file. A good overview and rapid navigation both boost productivity. Thanks for the encouragement. Erik
Not sure if it's what you are after, but there is a phone app called MagicPlan that maps existing structures as a floor plan using the camera. On 29 April 2017 at 19:42, Erik Christiansen via luv-main < luv-main@luv.asn.au> wrote:
On 29.04.17 18:43, Mark Trickett via luv-main wrote:
Just watch what you are doing with care, and it can do remarkable things. One of the critical things is to do the detail design in your head first, cladding thicknesses, fasteners, joints, particularly the complex ones. If you can envisage the detail of the build in your head, then you can get that onto paper somehow. I did drafting as part of a Mechanical Engineering degree. Putting in the detail is where you find out whether the drawing is correct and functional.
Yes, you've hit the nail on the head there. I'd laboriously drawn it up on graph paper, but with strawbale-unit dimensions, and with a great fat strawbale skin. I'm too old to do another DIY owner-builder build, and that's the only way that strawbale is viable. Now it's back to standard building units and materials.
So rather than do it again with pencil & paper, postscript allows me to automate detail right down to double studs around wall openings - while counting how many end up being used. Oh-oh, just remembered that the cladding comes in 1200 mm wide sheets - so replace the 450 mm stud spacing (one variable) and the stud_wall procedure moves the studs to sheet edges and centres.
OK, there's a slow initial primitive-building & tweaking phase, but after that it should fly - in a most flexible folding swiss army knife fashion.
Add vim folding markers in the comments, and I can have folding text in my manually generated postscript file. A good overview and rapid navigation both boost productivity.
Thanks for the encouragement.
Erik _______________________________________________ luv-main mailing list luv-main@luv.asn.au https://lists.luv.asn.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/luv-main
-- Dr Paul van den Bergen
On 29.04.17 20:19, Paul van den Bergen via luv-main wrote:
Not sure if it's what you are after, but there is a phone app called MagicPlan that maps existing structures as a floor plan using the camera.
That sounds interestingly high-tech, Paul, but this is a from-scratch new build. Thanks. Erik
participants (6)
-
Andrew Pam -
Erik Christiansen -
Mark Trickett -
Paul van den Bergen -
Russell Coker -
Stephen GEORGE