Hi Jeremy,

From a sysadmin perspective killing off pesky child processes is SO last century. You may well argue that every instance where child processes linger when the parent dies is a bug in the application. Well, good luck fixing every one.

I am actually surprised by this one. How often does it happen? I think I have not used the kill command on my servers for the last year at all. But you do not need systemd. You are talking about cgroups here. I come back to that in a minute.

It's a classic case of technical purists telling the users what they should want, rather than actually giving users what they want.

No, users want Windows;-) Or everything with an Apple on it. One point of open source is reliable stuff which is worked on by a community instead of some big egos which say quite often "Don't bother. It works for me and you adapt your stuff." Bigger projects with big egos end up with few enlightened developers and the rest "pissed off" and does not create good reliable software. If the handful of enlightened people are the only ones seeing it and understand it you have code which is not audited by many. Afterwards you have the security disasters which you had in the news recently. As more complex it is, as more and more features go into a system, the chance of this to happen increases.

I find a good analogy for the way cgroups improves management is thinking > about the ways in which virtualisation also improves management.

Yes. That's why I am using FreeBSD jails for years now;-) Amazing: FreeBSD can do this with init and jails get started and stopped via init script.. The only utility finally creating the jail is the jail(8) command (reading pararameters or a jail config). What else do you need? I can see some advantages of systemd (or other similar approaches). The frustration comes from the feeling having to use some kind of half-backed stuff written by difficult people and in a project which is quite fuzzy in its goals. But maybe I am on the wrong side anyway. Security coming from simple and working concepts is so yesterday. Somehow it reminds me of an old song which in translation means: Everything gets better. But nothing really good. Regards Peter