"Secure Boot", Windows 8, and Linux
Hi, There's been a bit of discussion on the list in recent months about problems with Windows 8, Secure Boot and Linux. I just thought I'd chip in to say that I've actually found it to be fine -- Ubuntu 13.04 installed really simply, resizing the Windows 8 partition down, and adding itself to the BIOS boot menu. I needed to go into the BIOS and disable Secure Boot, but this hasn't prevented Windows 8 from continuing to work fine too. -Toby
Yes, it's that easy. A perceived problem is not always real one. Regards Slav
-----Original Message----- From: luv-main-bounces@luv.asn.au [mailto:luv-main-bounces@luv.asn.au] On Behalf Of Toby Corkindale
I needed to go into the BIOS and disable Secure Boot, but this hasn't prevented Windows 8 from continuing to work fine too.
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On Thu, 20 Jun 2013 14:00:45 +1000 Toby Corkindale <toby.corkindale@strategicdata.com.au> wrote:
Hi, There's been a bit of discussion on the list in recent months about problems with Windows 8, Secure Boot and Linux.
I just thought I'd chip in to say that I've actually found it to be fine -- Ubuntu 13.04 installed really simply, resizing the Windows 8 partition down, and adding itself to the BIOS boot menu.
Do you mind sharing which hardware was that on?
I needed to go into the BIOS and disable Secure Boot, but this hasn't prevented Windows 8 from continuing to work fine too.
Are you saying that Windows 8 is running with Secure Boot disabled? Cheers Daniel
-Toby _______________________________________________ luv-main mailing list luv-main@luv.asn.au http://lists.luv.asn.au/listinfo/luv-main
-- dan062 <dan062@yahoo.com.au>
On 20/06/13 14:08, Dan062 wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jun 2013 14:00:45 +1000 Toby Corkindale <toby.corkindale@strategicdata.com.au> wrote:
Hi, There's been a bit of discussion on the list in recent months about problems with Windows 8, Secure Boot and Linux.
I just thought I'd chip in to say that I've actually found it to be fine -- Ubuntu 13.04 installed really simply, resizing the Windows 8 partition down, and adding itself to the BIOS boot menu.
Do you mind sharing which hardware was that on?
It's a Lenovo Thinkpad S430. Windows is installed on GPT partitioning scheme, with EFI BIOS. parted and grub2 seem to handle that OK these days.
I needed to go into the BIOS and disable Secure Boot, but this hasn't prevented Windows 8 from continuing to work fine too.
Are you saying that Windows 8 is running with Secure Boot disabled?
That is correct. Works just fine. Having found the tricks to bypass the Metro Tiles and go straight to desktop, with chrome, vim, pageant, putty, 7zip and openvpn installed now, it's fine to use in Windows. I actually quite like using the corners to access desktops and switch apps, as that's similar to how it works in Cinnamon in Ubuntu, anyway. I can boot into Ubuntu by hitting F12 during boot to get a list of boot options, and one of them is 'ubuntu'. (I can adjust the default between windows and ubuntu in the BIOS, under Boot Priority, along with options like USB keys or net booting)
You shouldn't even have to disable secure boot, Ubuntu has paid their $100 or so for a key. On 20 June 2013 18:01, Toby Corkindale <toby.corkindale@strategicdata.com.au
wrote:
On 20/06/13 14:08, Dan062 wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jun 2013 14:00:45 +1000 Toby Corkindale <toby.corkindale@strategicdata.com.au> wrote:
Hi, There's been a bit of discussion on the list in recent months about problems with Windows 8, Secure Boot and Linux.
I just thought I'd chip in to say that I've actually found it to be fine -- Ubuntu 13.04 installed really simply, resizing the Windows 8 partition down, and adding itself to the BIOS boot menu.
Do you mind sharing which hardware was that on?
It's a Lenovo Thinkpad S430. Windows is installed on GPT partitioning scheme, with EFI BIOS. parted and grub2 seem to handle that OK these days.
I needed to go into the BIOS and disable Secure Boot, but this hasn't prevented Windows 8 from continuing to work fine too.
Are you saying that Windows 8 is running with Secure Boot disabled?
That is correct. Works just fine.
Having found the tricks to bypass the Metro Tiles and go straight to desktop, with chrome, vim, pageant, putty, 7zip and openvpn installed now, it's fine to use in Windows. I actually quite like using the corners to access desktops and switch apps, as that's similar to how it works in Cinnamon in Ubuntu, anyway.
I can boot into Ubuntu by hitting F12 during boot to get a list of boot options, and one of them is 'ubuntu'. (I can adjust the default between windows and ubuntu in the BIOS, under Boot Priority, along with options like USB keys or net booting) _______________________________________________ luv-main mailing list luv-main@luv.asn.au http://lists.luv.asn.au/listinfo/luv-main
Hi Toby, one more question... That Lenovo laptop you are using below, does it have a Windows 8 logo on it??? LUVers tell me if I am getting this right or am I missing something here? By my understanding of things, Microsoft requires that new hardware support UEFI Secure Boot to be **certified for Windows 8 ** - and that means to be able to have a Windows 8 Logo showing on it. (I think this is what used to be called Windows Logo certification). There are also similar requirements for desktop apps to be able to claim Windows 8 certification and that means they have to, in some circumtances be signed by Microsoft, eg Drivers. (see: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/hh749939.aspx). I can of course go to a shop and purchase a box copy of Win8 or an upgrade version and install on my pre Windows 8 (eg Windows 7) laptop. and this would boot Windows 8 fine (without UEFI) .. and my laptop would have a Windows 7 sticker on it., ie I dont need UEFI to boot Windows 8. Now, earlier today, I was wondering around at JB HIFI, and was looking at the laptops. Not a single one of them actually had a Windows 8 logo showing, except for the Surface, (unless it was underneath, and I did not lift every single one to look underneath) and were running Windows 8, BUT there were a few older laptops running Windows 7 AND all having a Windows 7 sticker showing, ie these met Microsoft Logo certification for Win 7.. whatever that entailed. So my Queston is: does that mean that all these new laptops are not by Microsoft definition Windows 8 certified, and are running the non UEFI bootable version of Windows 8 (ie box set equivalent) (hence Toby being able to boot his Lenovo laptop without secure boot enable), and are not actually implementing secure boot and would therefore boot any version of Linux perfectly? Also, most manufacturers have pretty much given up on Windows 8 certification and UEFI anyway? Which kind of makes sense, since what it all means is being able to put a small Win 8 Sticker? What am I missing?!! Cheers Daniel.
Hi, There's been a bit of discussion on the list in recent months about problems with Windows 8, Secure Boot and Linux.
I just thought I'd chip in to say that I've actually found it to be fine -- Ubuntu 13.04 installed really simply, resizing the Windows 8 partition down, and adding itself to the BIOS boot menu.
I needed to go into the BIOS and disable Secure Boot, but this hasn't prevented Windows 8 from continuing to work fine too.
-Toby _______________________________________________ luv-main mailing list luv-main@luv.asn.au http://lists.luv.asn.au/listinfo/luv-main
-- dan062 <dan062@yahoo.com.au>
So my Queston is: does that mean that all these new laptops are not by Microsoft definition Windows 8 certified, and are running the non UEFI bootable version of Windows 8 (ie box set equivalent) (hence Toby being able to boot his Lenovo laptop without secure boot enable), and are not actually implementing secure boot and would therefore boot any version of Linux perfectly? Also, most manufacturers have pretty much given up on Windows 8 certification and UEFI anyway? Which kind of makes sense, since what it all means is being able to put a small Win 8 Sticker?
What am I missing?!!
You may be missing the distinction between the ARM and the x86 platforms. Last I heard, for windows certification (and maybe to work at all?) ARM devices require secure boot and require that there is no way to disable it. x86 only requires that the manufacture leave secure boot enabled by default. I believe the ARM version of Windows is a lot more like the Apple "Walled Garden" model. Wikipedia has some (hopefully) balanced text on the matter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_8#Secure_boot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware_restrictions#Windows_8 James
Hi Daniel, On 22/06/13 18:25, Dan062 wrote:
one more question... That Lenovo laptop you are using below, does it have a Windows 8 logo on it???
I recently purchased an Asus laptop to quickly replace my existing broken hardware, and it claims to have came preloaded with Windows 8. It has the new Windows 8 logo on the menu keys, and a Windows 8 logo on the bottom of the device (which actually seems to have been printed on the plastic, as opposed to being a sticker).
So my Queston is: does that mean that all these new laptops are not by Microsoft definition Windows 8 certified, and are running the non UEFI bootable version of Windows 8 (ie box set equivalent) (hence Toby being able to boot his Lenovo laptop without secure boot enable), and are not actually implementing secure boot and would therefore boot any version of Linux perfectly? Also, most manufacturers have pretty much given up on Windows 8 certification and UEFI anyway? Which kind of makes sense, since what it all means is being able to put a small Win 8 Sticker?
The first thing I did after taking the laptop out of the box was open it up and replace the HDD with the SSD from my previous laptop, which also already had a perfectly good Debian GNU/Linux installation that I wanted to keep. After doing this, I was surprised the machine wouldn't immediately boot. I had to go into the BIOS and change a few settings, such as one which enabled some kind of legacy boot mode (and was not clear that it needed changing at all), and another which disabled Secure Boot. After these steps, the laptop works great and I haven't had any problems. I'm typing this e-mail on it. Having said that, I'd suggest considering places like ThinkPenguin to get a guarantee of hardware compatibility and avoid paying the Microsoft tax - if you can wait for international shipping. Pioneer Computers, and possibly Dell will also ship you machines with GNU/Linux, but they may require proprietary drivers to work correctly if you aren't careful. As James pointed out, also make sure you don't get mixed up with Windows RT (basically a version of Windows 8 for ARM). Windows RT certified hardware *is* required to be locked down (unchangeable Secure Boot keys) and will surely give you trouble. Cheers, Adam
Adam Bolte writes:
As James pointed out, also make sure you don't get mixed up with Windows RT (basically a version of Windows 8 for ARM). Windows RT certified hardware *is* required to be locked down (unchangeable Secure Boot keys) and will surely give you trouble.
Last I heard, RT also can't run any actual Windows apps except for MS Office, so it's pretty useless as a Windows system as well :-)
On 24/06/13 14:12, Toby Corkindale wrote:
On 22/06/13 18:25, Dan062 wrote:
Hi Toby,
one more question... That Lenovo laptop you are using below, does it have a Windows 8 logo on it??? Ah, umm.. I peeled some stickers off the bezel almost immediately, and I don't recall which ones they were. Sorry. Actually the Win 8 logo sticker is most likely underneath and it is a dark greenish one and not the skyblue-white typical Win8 logo. Wonder why Microsoft decided to do it this way, instead of a prominently visible logo on the front where the previous ones Win2000 to Win7 have been. Thats why I missed it, as I was looking for the blue-white one.
D.
-T _______________________________________________ luv-main mailing list luv-main@luv.asn.au http://lists.luv.asn.au/listinfo/luv-main
participants (8)
-
Adam Bolte -
Dan062 -
Daniel Jitnah -
James Harper -
Pidgorny, Slav (GEUS) -
thelionroars -
Toby Corkindale -
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