Now just in case anyone is a little annoyed by my posts not following the mail threading. My mail set up is complex these days. The sending ISP and mail user program is different from the recieving ISP and mail user program....... A long story............... It is possible to use only one, it does require more "handstands" to do it that way, the current way is simpler and quicker. I do not use email much (only a couple of times a year) so I have never bothered to try and solve the issue. Lindsay
On Sun, 12 May 2013, zlinw@mcmedia.com.au wrote:
Now just in case anyone is a little annoyed by my posts not following the mail threading. My mail set up is complex these days. The sending ISP and mail user program is different from the recieving ISP and mail user program.......
Just configure one MUA to use both accounts. All good MUAs support this, I have Kmail using 3 different accounts and it works well. Another option is to use Fetchmail to copy mail from other accounts to your preferred one, I use Fetchmail for another couple of email accounts that I don't want to setup in Kmail. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
Russell Coker <russell@coker.com.au> wrote:
Just configure one MUA to use both accounts. All good MUAs support this, I have Kmail using 3 different accounts and it works well.
Another option is to use Fetchmail to copy mail from other accounts to your preferred one, I use Fetchmail for another couple of email accounts that I don't want to setup in Kmail.
Here's how I solved it (but this solution won't suit everyone): 1. I bought a licence to a domain, jasonjgw.net. 2. I configured all of my other accounts to forward to jason@jasonjgw.net. 3. I configured my MUA to use this as the outbound address for all mail and also changed all mailing list subscriptions to use it. For people who have separate "work" and "non-work" identities, it's still possible to complete steps 1 and 2, then filter the messages as they arrive with Procmail, Maildrop or similar. Finally, configure the MUA to use a different outbound address depending on which folder is current (I think some will let you do this based on headers of the message to which you're replying, but folder-based address selection is still convenient for writing new messages that aren't replying to incoming mail). This arrangement generalizes in the obvious way to any number of distinct identities with distinct e-mail addresses.
On Mon, 13 May 2013, Jason White <jason@jasonjgw.net> wrote:
1. I bought a licence to a domain, jasonjgw.net.
2. I configured all of my other accounts to forward to jason@jasonjgw.net.
You could of course have it forwarded to an address @gmail.com or any other email address for much the same result. While running your own mail server is nice it's not required for such things. Fetchmail has a much lower reliability requirement than most "server" software. So you can run Fetchmail on a workstation or laptop. Fetchmail only really needs to be working when you are likely to read mail...
3. I configured my MUA to use this as the outbound address for all mail and also changed all mailing list subscriptions to use it.
For people who have separate "work" and "non-work" identities, it's still possible to complete steps 1 and 2, then filter the messages as they arrive with Procmail, Maildrop or similar.
Also you could just have two email accounts for the different purposes. There's nothing stopping you from having as many email addresses as you want in your own domain and there's also nothing stopping you from having multiple gmail.com accounts (AFAIK, I know lots of people who do it). Also if you have your own MTA you can use addresses like user+reason@example.com which go to the IMAP folder named "reason" in the account "user". That works well for me. At the bottom of this message is my courier maildrop configuration which sends mail to $USER/$EXTENSION if $EXTENSION is non-null and doesn't equal "backup", it also CC's mail to the backup folder so users can recover mail that they deleted without bothering me (you would be surprised how useful this is).
Finally, configure the MUA to use a different outbound address depending on which folder is current (I think some will let you do this based on headers of the message to which you're replying, but folder-based address selection is still convenient for writing new messages that aren't replying to incoming mail). This arrangement generalizes in the obvious way to any number of distinct identities with distinct e-mail addresses.
Kmail appears to only allow you to set the identity based on the account not on the folder. So if you have user+work@example.com and user+home@example.com as different IMAP folders it probably wouldn't do what you want. But if you had user-home@example.com and user-work@example.com as separate accounts then it would. cat /etc/courier/maildroprc # Global maildrop filter file logfile "/var/log/maildrop.log" DOMAIN=tolower("$1") USER=tolower("$2") EXTENSION=tolower("$3") DEFAULT="/mail/$DOMAIN/$USER" exception { cc "$DEFAULT/.backup/" } exception { if(length("$EXTENSION") != 0 && "$EXTENSION" ne "backup") { to "$DEFAULT/.$EXTENSION/" } } to "$DEFAULT/" -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
Russell Coker <russell@coker.com.au> wrote:
On Mon, 13 May 2013, Jason White <jason@jasonjgw.net> wrote:
You could of course have it forwarded to an address @gmail.com or any other email address for much the same result. While running your own mail server is nice it's not required for such things.
Exactly, but using your own domain has the advantage that you can change the server arrangements and simply update the MX records. I have no doubt that various service providers will gladly host mail for a customer's domain, but I haven't explored these options yet as I can run my own server. Google offer this but I don't know at what price, to mention one prominent example.
Fetchmail has a much lower reliability requirement than most "server" software. So you can run Fetchmail on a workstation or laptop. Fetchmail only really needs to be working when you are likely to read mail...
The interesting competitor here is offlineimap: it synchronizes mail between maildir folders and an IMAp server. The right way to do this, from my perspective, is to create a daemon that uses inotify, but when I last looked a few years ago, offlineimap couldn't be configured to work this way. There are well informed people who prefer it, however.
Finally, configure the MUA to use a different outbound address depending on which folder is current (I think some will let you do this based on headers of the message to which you're replying, but folder-based address selection is still convenient for writing new messages that aren't replying to incoming mail). This arrangement generalizes in the obvious way to any number of distinct identities with distinct e-mail addresses.
Kmail appears to only allow you to set the identity based on the account not on the folder. So if you have user+work@example.com and user+home@example.com as different IMAP folders it probably wouldn't do what you want. But if you had user-home@example.com and user-work@example.com as separate accounts then it would.
Mutt is quite flexible in this regard as you can define hooks which are executed upon a change of folder. There's a tendency for software designed to run under desktop environments to be less flexible and less amenable to script creation, but fortunately there are exceptions. My understanding is that KDE applications are typically more configurable than Gnome applications.
cat /etc/courier/maildroprc
[snip useful maildrop rules] I'm still running Procmail, but Maildrop has arguably better syntax, and indisputably better error checking.
On 13.05.13 18:45, Jason White wrote:
I have no doubt that various service providers will gladly host mail for a customer's domain, but I haven't explored these options yet as I can run my own server. Google offer this but I don't know at what price, to mention one prominent example.
Yes, they're also very happy to charge for it, but many small organisations cannot adequately administer a mailserver themselves, whether linux or the other. Mind you, some providers don't seem to do much better. I've had to ring an ISP in Sydney, and browbeat them into fixing a broken MX record, when they couldn't/wouldn't/didn't sort out their customer's mail problems. Erik -- Maybe there should be more of this, worldwide?: "Our milk's the closest thing that you can get to putting your jug in the vat," Pyengana's Jon Healey, commenting on the growing trend of farmer-marketed milk, in response to the unsustainable $1/L retailing of milk by big multinationals. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-10/price-war-drives-demand-for-farmhouse-...
Russell Coker <russell@coker.com.au> writes:
Also if you have your own MTA you can use addresses like user+reason@example.com which go to the IMAP folder named "reason" in the
gmail and hotmail also support subaddresses. I hear gmail also drops dots in the LHS, so x.y.z and xyz and xy.z all go to the same account -- this could be leveraged for the same purpose.
On Tue, 2013-05-14 at 09:42 +1000, Trent W. Buck wrote:
gmail and hotmail also support subaddresses.
I hear gmail also drops dots in the LHS, so x.y.z and xyz and xy.z all go to the same account -- this could be leveraged for the same purpose.
And this bites me. There is someone else out there who uses my Gmail email address, but with a dot between the first and second names, and I get variously strange emails now and then. Fortunately not pron, but latest was confirmation on a gaming network. My "gaming" is programming. Regards, Mark Trickett
On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Mark Trickett <marktrickett@bigpond.com> wrote:
On Tue, 2013-05-14 at 09:42 +1000, Trent W. Buck wrote:
gmail and hotmail also support subaddresses.
I hear gmail also drops dots in the LHS, so x.y.z and xyz and xy.z all go to the same account -- this could be leveraged for the same purpose.
And this bites me. There is someone else out there who uses my Gmail email address, but with a dot between the first and second names, and I get variously strange emails now and then. Fortunately not pron, but latest was confirmation on a gaming network. My "gaming" is programming.
I just logged out of my gmail account which is mark.clohesy@gmail.com and tried to create a new account markclohesy@gmail.com and got the following message from google.. Someone already has that username. Note that we ignore periods and capitalization in usernames. Try another? I would guess in your case the period has nothing to do with it and that the person has mistyped the email address spelling -- Mark "Pockets" Clohesy Mob Phone: (+61) 406 417 877 Email: hiddensoul@twistedsouls.com G-Talk: mark.clohesy@gmail.com GNU/Linux..Linux Counter #457297 - "I would love to change the world, but they won't give me the source code" "Linux is user friendly...its just selective about who its friends are"
On Tue, 2013-05-14 at 21:40 +1000, Hiddensoul (Mark Clohesy) wrote:
On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Mark Trickett <marktrickett@bigpond.com> wrote:
On Tue, 2013-05-14 at 09:42 +1000, Trent W. Buck wrote:
gmail and hotmail also support subaddresses.
I hear gmail also drops dots in the LHS, so x.y.z and xyz and xy.z all go to the same account -- this could be leveraged for the same purpose.
And this bites me. There is someone else out there who uses my Gmail email address, but with a dot between the first and second names, and I get variously strange emails now and then. Fortunately not pron, but latest was confirmation on a gaming network. My "gaming" is programming.
I just logged out of my gmail account which is mark.clohesy@gmail.com and tried to create a new account markclohesy@gmail.com and got the following message from google..
Someone already has that username. Note that we ignore periods and capitalization in usernames. Try another?
I would guess in your case the period has nothing to do with it and that the person has mistyped the email address spelling
Except that it has happened repeatedly, more so previously. Not quite certain of that. The spelling is "correct", and suchlike. There are other people around the world with the same first and family names, but I suspect that add in my middle name and quite unlikely to match another person. There is also a slender chance of a measure of malice. As to why suspect pig ignorance, the gaming company email indicated a persistent use of the identity, legitimately, in that space, and not quite certain of how or why they tried to use my email moniker. Regards, Mark Trickett
Hi, On Tue, May 14, 2013 9:40 pm, Hiddensoul (Mark Clohesy) wrote:
I just logged out of my gmail account which is mark.clohesy@gmail.com and tried to create a new account markclohesy@gmail.com and got the following message from google..
Someone already has that username. Note that we ignore periods and capitalization in usernames. Try another?
Okay.
I would guess in your case the period has nothing to do with it and that the person has mistyped the email address spelling
No, it confirms the case rather than denies it. - you logged out of mark.clohesy@ - you tried to create a new account markclohesy@ - Google said an account already exists.... [your normal one.] How is that not absolute confirmation of the ignorance of period characters? Already, the RFC takes away capitalization from emails, unless I am mistaken, but periods should be accepted as one of any of the available "normal" characters for the local part of the email address. Cheers A.
On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 11:55 PM, Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> wrote:
Hi,
On Tue, May 14, 2013 9:40 pm, Hiddensoul (Mark Clohesy) wrote:
I just logged out of my gmail account which is mark.clohesy@gmail.com and tried to create a new account markclohesy@gmail.com and got the following message from google..
Someone already has that username. Note that we ignore periods and capitalization in usernames. Try another?
Okay.
I would guess in your case the period has nothing to do with it and that the person has mistyped the email address spelling
No, it confirms the case rather than denies it.
I thought Mark Trickett said another person was using the same account name on gmail but with the period ie mark.clohesy vs markclohesy <quote> Mark T And this bites me. There is someone else out there who uses my Gmail email address, but with a dot between the first and second names, and I get variously strange emails now and then </quote> I agree Gmail ignores periods and wont let me create another account so I am curious how two accounts can exist on gmail one that is Mark's and one that is someone else as googles backend wont let you create the two accounts only varying by a period ? Hence my comment and test, I agree a period "should" be a valid character in an email address but in this use case ie Gmail it is not
- you logged out of mark.clohesy@ - you tried to create a new account markclohesy@ - Google said an account already exists.... [your normal one.]
How is that not absolute confirmation of the ignorance of period characters?
As stated above I agree it is ignorance of a period on Gmails part
Already, the RFC takes away capitalization from emails, unless I am mistaken, but periods should be accepted as one of any of the available "normal" characters for the local part of the email address.
Yep agree again
Cheers A.
-- Mark "Pockets" Clohesy Mob Phone: (+61) 406 417 877 Email: hiddensoul@twistedsouls.com G-Talk: mark.clohesy@gmail.com GNU/Linux..Linux Counter #457297 - "I would love to change the world, but they won't give me the source code" "Linux is user friendly...its just selective about who its friends are"
On 15/05/2013 1:53 AM, Hiddensoul (Mark Clohesy) wrote:
<quote> Mark T And this bites me. There is someone else out there who uses my Gmail email address, but with a dot between the first and second names, and I get variously strange emails now and then </quote>
I agree Gmail ignores periods and wont let me create another account so I am curious how two accounts can exist on gmail one that is Mark's and one that is someone else as googles backend wont let you create the two accounts only varying by a period ?
Yes, I would think there was a typo or something and the other account is different by more than the inclusion/exclusion of period char(s). Cheers A.
Quoting Andrew McGlashan (andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au):
Already, the RFC takes away capitalization from emails, unless I am mistaken, but periods should be accepted as one of any of the available "normal" characters for the local part of the email address.
I can't find the RFC reference, but left-hand-side (local part) portions of e-mail addresses should be left intact and not lowercased, as there have been Internet-connected systems for which the local part is case-sensitive.
On 15/05/2013 3:10 AM, Rick Moen wrote:
Quoting Andrew McGlashan (andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au):
Already, the RFC takes away capitalization from emails, unless I am mistaken, but periods should be accepted as one of any of the available "normal" characters for the local part of the email address.
I can't find the RFC reference, but left-hand-side (local part) portions of e-mail addresses should be left intact and not lowercased, as there have been Internet-connected systems for which the local part is case-sensitive.
I think I've seen case as being important too, with some old Windows mail system (many years ago), but it seemed to be an aberration to every other mail system I've seen. My exim4 seems to completely ignore case when I do testing with: exim4 -bt aaa@somedomain.com exim4 -bt aAa@somedomain.com - but I'm not positive that using "-bt" with exim will always give the actual end result that you would get through normal delivery. Okay, I just found some more information: http://www.exim.org/exim-html-current/doc/html/spec_html/ch-domain_host_addr... <quote> 20. Case of letters in address lists Domains in email addresses are always handled caselessly, but for local parts case may be significant on some systems (see caseful_local_part for how Exim deals with this when routing addresses). However, RFC 2505 (Anti-Spam Recommendations for SMTP MTAs) suggests that matching of addresses to blocking lists should be done in a case-independent manner. Since most address lists in Exim are used for this kind of control, Exim attempts to do this by default. </quote> So, it is possible on modern systems. My son wanted to have a "Unicode Character 'ZERO WIDTH NO-BREAK SPACE'" local part for his email, thus using just an empty "like" zero-space character, but it was too awkward ... and I decided not to bother futzing too much with the idea. http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/feff/index.htm Cheers A.
Mark Trickett <marktrickett@bigpond.com> writes:
On Tue, 2013-05-14 at 09:42 +1000, Trent W. Buck wrote:
gmail and hotmail also support subaddresses.
I hear gmail also drops dots in the LHS, so x.y.z and xyz and xy.z all go to the same account -- this could be leveraged for the same purpose.
And this bites me. There is someone else out there who uses my Gmail email address, but with a dot between the first and second names
Indeed; I heard about this because it was used to attack amazon, by claiming your object never arrived and asking for it to be resent to <dead drop> instead because "you" are out of town this week. Apparently amazon doesn't check very hard that you're you. (I didn't quite understand how that attack works, since it seems to me you'd want *amazon* to treat x.y and xy as the same, and gmail to treat them as different. Shrug.)
Hello Trent, On Wed, 2013-05-15 at 10:34 +1000, Trent W. Buck wrote:
Mark Trickett <marktrickett@bigpond.com> writes:
On Tue, 2013-05-14 at 09:42 +1000, Trent W. Buck wrote:
gmail and hotmail also support subaddresses.
I hear gmail also drops dots in the LHS, so x.y.z and xyz and xy.z all go to the same account -- this could be leveraged for the same purpose.
And this bites me. There is someone else out there who uses my Gmail email address, but with a dot between the first and second names
Indeed; I heard about this because it was used to attack amazon, by claiming your object never arrived and asking for it to be resent to <dead drop> instead because "you" are out of town this week. Apparently amazon doesn't check very hard that you're you.
(I didn't quite understand how that attack works, since it seems to me you'd want *amazon* to treat x.y and xy as the same, and gmail to treat them as different. Shrug.)
No, I am complaining that some "turkey" (being polite) is that they are trying to use an email address that they do not have access to as their own, and that it arrives in my inbox. I chose the "local" part of my email address with some thought. Someone else beat me to a shorter version which I use as a local login on my own box, and to some other not quite so short variants. The email content causes me to scratch my head for relevance, not gross offence with what has arrived so far. Regards, Mark Trickett
participants (9)
-
Andrew McGlashan -
Erik Christiansen -
Hiddensoul (Mark Clohesy) -
Jason White -
Mark Trickett -
Rick Moen -
Russell Coker -
trentbuck＠gmail.com -
zlinw＠mcmedia.com.au