Telstra ADSL and Linux, a couple of dumb questions......
I recently shifted, although still very much in rural Victoria I am now in ADSL range of an exchange (just over 5000 metres cable distance). I am considering getting the Telstra S+ bundle, this being a phone and ADSL broadband with a 50g alocation a month on a 24 month contract. I am fairly happy with this bundle it will save me around $4 to 500 dollars a year and giving __much__ higher data allowance. Is there any issues with this, will it work OK into a Linux system. For instance I found with Virgin moble broadband this system had to be enabled on a Windows system, something I do not have with network access. If it helps I have a small network of 4 machines one of which is the internet access box with a "do not speak unless spoken to" fire wall set up. ie firewall is set up so that only external incoming connections that are related to outgoing connections are allowed. NO machine is on all the time, so the ADSL line will mostly be connected to machine thats switched off. Lindsay
I recently shifted, although still very much in rural Victoria I am now in ADSL range of an exchange (just over 5000 metres cable distance). I am considering getting the Telstra S+ bundle, this being a phone and ADSL broadband with a 50g alocation a month on a 24 month contract.
I am fairly happy with this bundle it will save me around $4 to 500 dollars a year and giving __much__ higher data allowance.
Is there any issues with this, will it work OK into a Linux system. For instance I found with Virgin moble broadband this system had to be enabled on a Windows system, something I do not have with network access.
If it helps I have a small network of 4 machines one of which is the internet access box with a "do not speak unless spoken to" fire wall set up. ie firewall is set up so that only external incoming connections that are related to outgoing connections are allowed. NO machine is on all the time, so the ADSL line will mostly be connected to machine thats switched off.
Lindsay _______________________________________________ Hi Lindsay We use Linux for everything, 2 Fedora 20 boxes and 3 Ubuntu laptops and are 5Km from the exchange, have been using Telstra 12g ADSL allocation for some years. Line speed drops to 0.2 K/sec quite frequently because the exchange was modified for some 100 subscribers and they have over 2000 signed up so their infrastructure is unable to cope, absolute crap. We may get NBN in 20 years or so so they won't fix the problem.
May I suggest, check with Telstra how many subscribers their exchange can manage and how many in the surrounding exchange connected area are using ADSL through that exchange. They sell 1500k/sec or better but at the very best I get 640k/sec for max 2 minutes a month, not all at once though, variously 120k/sec and frequently as above 1 to 0.2 k/sec or nothing for hours at a time. Talk to Telstra technicians in Melbourne or Sydney- not the help desk, Asian or Indian call centre staff go completely blank if you mention Linux. Apart from the rant above, I have no problems. Roger
On 13/06/14 09:18, Roger wrote:
May I suggest, check with Telstra how many subscribers their exchange can manage and how many in the surrounding exchange connected area are using ADSL through that exchange.
They will not tell you this information. I am a Telstra Wholesale customer (I am systems/network admin at a small ISP) and not even I can get this information. You can, however, get a listing of free ports at the exchange. Note that, however, this is an answer to a different question, so doesn’t help you much. <http://telstrawholesale.com.au/download/document/tw-report-adsl-exchange-available-capacity.xls>
On 13 June 2014 08:36, <zlinw@mcmedia.com.au> wrote:
I recently shifted, although still very much in rural Victoria I am now in ADSL range of an exchange (just over 5000 metres cable distance). I am considering getting the Telstra S+ bundle, this being a phone and ADSL broadband with a 50g alocation a month on a 24 month contract.
Is there any issues with this, will it work OK into a Linux system. For instance I found with Virgin moble broadband this system had to be enabled on a Windows system, something I do not have with network access.
Do you have to go with Telstra, or can you go with another provider? I just mention this because Telstra is usually terribly poor value for money; yet other providers out there are just going to be reselling the same actual service, so wouldn't be any better or worse for you. As far as ADSL goes -- it's standardised and will be fine. The issues you're likely to encounter relate more to your choice of ADSL modem and/or router. ie. Some of them are shitty and require Windows and special USB drivers -- and some provide an ethernet port and use RFC standard protocols. Personally, I use PPP-over-Ethernet (pppoe), which is where the modem is setup to just bridge ADSL to Ethernet, and then your Linux box does all the authentication, routing, firewalling and so forth. If you're going to do that, something like the $21 TP-Link TD-8817 would be fine for your purposes. If you are going to go the route of using the modem as the router as well, then make sure you pick up a decent unit, not the TP-Links. Someone else can advise. (In that case, you end up with the router doing the firewalling, NAT/Masquerading and so forth) -Toby
On 06/13/2014 10:55 AM, Toby Corkindale wrote:
Do you have to go with Telstra, or can you go with another provider? I just mention this because Telstra is usually terribly poor value for money; yet other providers out there are just going to be reselling the same actual service, so wouldn't be any better or worse for you.
The problem here is that Telstra owns the copper and the exchange. Other providers are hamstrung by Telstra inadequacy. In my case wireless is not an option because I live just below the narrow beam transmitted by both Optus and Telstra. I would need a tower on my roof to get into the transmission beam and local reports say that wireless here is pretty inadequate due to environment. Telstra, after they have hobbled it, will throw a basic, locked down ADSL modem, which you pay $250 approx for and cannot refuse, into the contract. Roger
On 13 June 2014 13:59, Roger <arelem@bigpond.com> wrote:
On 06/13/2014 10:55 AM, Toby Corkindale wrote:
Do you have to go with Telstra, or can you go with another provider? I just mention this because Telstra is usually terribly poor value for money; yet other providers out there are just going to be reselling the same actual service, so wouldn't be any better or worse for you.
The problem here is that Telstra owns the copper and the exchange. Other providers are hamstrung by Telstra inadequacy. In my case wireless is not an option because I live just below the narrow beam transmitted by both Optus and Telstra. I would need a tower on my roof to get into the transmission beam and local reports say that wireless here is pretty inadequate due to environment. Telstra, after they have hobbled it, will throw a basic, locked down ADSL modem, which you pay $250 approx for and cannot refuse, into the contract.
In the city, even on exchanges where there is only a telstra DSLAM, you can still go with a provider who is reselling the telstra port. I would be surprised if this isn't available outside of the metro area. These are referred to as "off-network" plans when you're on an ISPs website. Worth a look.
On 13/06/14 14:43, Toby Corkindale wrote:
On 13 June 2014 13:59, Roger <arelem@bigpond.com> wrote:
On 06/13/2014 10:55 AM, Toby Corkindale wrote:
Do you have to go with Telstra, or can you go with another provider? I just mention this because Telstra is usually terribly poor value for money; yet other providers out there are just going to be reselling the same actual service, so wouldn't be any better or worse for you.
The problem here is that Telstra owns the copper and the exchange. Other providers are hamstrung by Telstra inadequacy. In my case wireless is not an option because I live just below the narrow beam transmitted by both Optus and Telstra. I would need a tower on my roof to get into the transmission beam and local reports say that wireless here is pretty inadequate due to environment. Telstra, after they have hobbled it, will throw a basic, locked down ADSL modem, which you pay $250 approx for and cannot refuse, into the contract.
In the city, even on exchanges where there is only a telstra DSLAM, you can still go with a provider who is reselling the telstra port. I would be surprised if this isn't available outside of the metro area. These are referred to as "off-network" plans when you're on an ISPs website.
May only be ADSL1 though.
On 13.06.14 15:00, Allan Duncan wrote:
On 13/06/14 14:43, Toby Corkindale wrote:
In the city, even on exchanges where there is only a telstra DSLAM, you can still go with a provider who is reselling the telstra port. I would be surprised if this isn't available outside of the metro area. These are referred to as "off-network" plans when you're on an ISPs website.
May only be ADSL1 though.
Here in Tecoma (Dandenong Ranges), my ISP (Internode) provides ADSL2+. Is it a rural exchange which would limit it to ADSL1, or the 5 km line length? Erik -- The only way to do anything about man made global climate change is to reduce the population. The way to do that is to do nothing about climate change and let nature do it for us. - eko000 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-12/scientists-have-new-explanation-for-dr...
Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> writes:
On 13.06.14 15:00, Allan Duncan wrote:
On 13/06/14 14:43, Toby Corkindale wrote:
In the city, even on exchanges where there is only a telstra DSLAM, you can still go with a provider who is reselling the telstra port. I would be surprised if this isn't available outside of the metro area. These are referred to as "off-network" plans when you're on an ISPs website.
May only be ADSL1 though.
Here in Tecoma (Dandenong Ranges), my ISP (Internode) provides ADSL2+. Is it a rural exchange which would limit it to ADSL1, or the 5 km line length?
I assume they're talking about attenuation, which is a property of the distance[0] between the DSLAM and your ADSL modem. I'm not sure if a line can support ADSL1 without also supporting (slow) ADSL2+ -- I'd expect that difference to be lack of support for ADSL2+ in the DSLAM. [0] of copper, not "as the crow flies"
On 16 June 2014 10:59, Trent W. Buck <trentbuck@gmail.com> wrote:
Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> writes:
May only be ADSL1 though.
Here in Tecoma (Dandenong Ranges), my ISP (Internode) provides ADSL2+. Is it a rural exchange which would limit it to ADSL1, or the 5 km line length?
I assume they're talking about attenuation, which is a property of the distance[0] between the DSLAM and your ADSL modem. I'm not sure if a line can support ADSL1 without also supporting (slow) ADSL2+ -- I'd expect that difference to be lack of support for ADSL2+ in the DSLAM.
This discussion would be better placed on whirlpool, which is relevant to the subject matter, rather than a regional Linux discussion list. I say that not to be pedantic, but because you'd get better quality responses, I think. Then again, the signal to noise there is pretty bad. Anyway. ADSL1 runs at a higher voltage than ADSL2, which enables it to reach a little bit further than ADSL2 on copper runs with a lot of attenuation.
On 15/06/14 19:26, Erik Christiansen wrote:
On 13.06.14 15:00, Allan Duncan wrote:
On 13/06/14 14:43, Toby Corkindale wrote:
In the city, even on exchanges where there is only a telstra DSLAM, you can still go with a provider who is reselling the telstra port. I would be surprised if this isn't available outside of the metro area. These are referred to as "off-network" plans when you're on an ISPs website.
May only be ADSL1 though.
Here in Tecoma (Dandenong Ranges), my ISP (Internode) provides ADSL2+. Is it a rural exchange which would limit it to ADSL1, or the 5 km line length?
5 K? Even the most pessimistic route to the extreme of Tecoma is under 3.5 Km. More likely crappy copper and joints. I'm further out than you in north Upwey, and I get 7 Mbit/s on a standard profile, which gives you the best speed at 9 dB SNR. It has not done a reset for over a week, and the RX CRC error rate is quite modest. If you are prepared to live with it falling over at least daily you can get 9 Mbits/s at 3 dB SNR, but I had a period a couple of weeks ago when I had to pull it right back to ADSL1 for a couple of days. Near end cross-talk getting into the aerial cable maybe. Belgrave has at least iinet DSLAMs, maybe some Internode ones as well - they did some scheduled work there a couple of weeks ago and put us off air for 8 hours so anything could have been changed. If you are on an iinet DSLAM and want to change over to naked there is (at least when I tried six months ago) a need to manually alter things which can leave you without ADSL for up to 5 weeks, but not for the Internode DSLAMs - stupid vs remote managed?
On Fri, 2014-06-13 at 13:59 +1000, Roger wrote:
On 06/13/2014 10:55 AM, Toby Corkindale wrote:
Do you have to go with Telstra, or can you go with another provider? I just mention this because Telstra is usually terribly poor value for money; yet other providers out there are just going to be reselling the same actual service, so wouldn't be any better or worse for you.
The problem here is that Telstra owns the copper and the exchange. Other providers are hamstrung by Telstra inadequacy. In my case wireless is not an option because I live just below the narrow beam transmitted by both Optus and Telstra. I would need a tower on my roof to get into the transmission beam and local reports say that wireless here is pretty inadequate due to environment. Telstra, after they have hobbled it, will throw a basic, locked down ADSL modem, which you pay $250 approx for and cannot refuse, into the contract. Roger
Hi Roger I work for Telstra as a Front of House Business Consultant. I invite you to provide some evidence of your assertion that we force you to take a modem, or that it is anywhere near $250 for a basic modem. When we started offering Telstra Business Broadband we were heavily subsidising an expensive Cisco Modem Router which at that time retailed for around $1,000 but for which we asked $200. We certainly do not force you to take our modems, but if you wanted to bring your own we would like it to be a reasonable standard, otherwise you might be complaining about the speed of our network, when your modem was letting the side down. This is my personal response, my remarks are not to be construed as a response from Telstra. Andrew Greig
Hi Lindsay, If you are 5km from the exchange by cable, then unless the copper is quite thick, you probably won't even get ANY kind of DSL service. Now, let's say you are lucky and the cable is thick; chances are the speed will still be low due to the loss of signal over the phone line -- it won't sync high and it will probably have lots of dropouts, particularly if the weather interferes. Telstra is not known for properly maintaining the copper network; they do bandaid fixes on the copper line. This will effect you no matter what provider you have. It is almost always true that you can get a much better offer using an alternate wholesale provider, but sometimes Telstra give offers that are so low that it is impossible for a TW [Telstra Wholesale] customer to come close to matching. There is still, from what I hear, issues with Telstra being anti-competitive ... and chances are you'll get nowhere trying to fight them. My suggestion is, if you don't mind, to privately (off list), get the address details from you and let me see what is actually available from the service qualifications tools I have at my disposal. I can't promise anything, but if you can get a service, it will likely be at a good price and data quota won't be an issue at all. -- Kind Regards AndrewM Andrew McGlashan IT Support & Broadband Solutions Affinity Vision Australia Pty Ltd http://affinityvision.com.au https://securemywireless.com.au https://adsl2choice.net.au In Case of Emergency -- http://affinityvision.com.au/ice.html
Oh, and further more, it is usually best to have a DSL connection via a modem in bridge mode -- using a good firewall device. If you don't want a separate firewall device, then you can simply use the modem for DHCP purposes and the Linux side of things is as simple as plain old networking. There is none of this Windows vs Linux to be worried about. For 3G and 4G services, I usually recommend a dedicated modem/router device that supports Mobile Broadband using a USB stick -- for instance a box running ROOTer [1] (a version of DD-WRT), will be much easier to use than trying to get the 3G/4G modem stick operational directly on a Linux box. Besides, I am of the view that the public IP (or carrier grade NAT IP), should not be public facing directly on equipment that /may/ have any kind of vulnerable component -- that is especially true for Windows boxes, but it is also true for other OS (including Mac OS X) and of course Linux. [1] http://www.ofmodemsandmen.com/downloads.html Cheers A.
On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 06:46:57 Andrew McGlashan wrote:
For 3G and 4G services, I usually recommend a dedicated modem/router device that supports Mobile Broadband using a USB stick -- for instance a box running ROOTer [1] (a version of DD-WRT), will be much easier to use than trying to get the 3G/4G modem stick operational directly on a Linux box.
It's been some years since I used such a 3G/4G modem, since Android 2.3 came out with Wifi AP support I haven't had a need for it. But when I used such things I never had any problem. I used my 3G modem on multiple laptops and workstations while tracking Debian/Unstable.
Besides, I am of the view that the public IP (or carrier grade NAT IP), should not be public facing directly on equipment that /may/ have any kind of vulnerable component -- that is especially true for Windows boxes, but it is also true for other OS (including Mac OS X) and of course Linux.
While that's a reasonable point in concept it doesn't seem to apply well here. If you use a major distribution like Debian you can easily apply security patches and the number of people maintaining it ensures that bugs generally get fixed quickly. If you use a distribution with a smaller user base and few developers bugs might not get fixed as quickly. It seems to me that there are two approaches one could take with regard to a firewall box. One is to run the same distribution as your workstations so you are good at managing it. The other is to run a different distribution in the hope that both distributions don't have the same bug, EG you could run Debian on your desktop and CentOS on your firewall. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
Russell Coker <russell@coker.com.au> wrote:
It seems to me that there are two approaches one could take with regard to a firewall box. One is to run the same distribution as your workstations so you are good at managing it. The other is to run a different distribution in the hope that both distributions don't have the same bug, EG you could run Debian on your desktop and CentOS on your firewall.
for a firewall machine, only run the daemons that you really need, make sure iptables/netfilter rules are configured appropriately, and keep up with security-related package updates.
Yes on WiFi hotspot using Android, but most 2.x devices are too old to support 4G or new, but too budget to have all the right radios. The biggest problem with older gear is the radios that are supported -- that's the biggest reason to /need/ to update mobile phones too. Still, I think it is better to run a dedicated router, such as a Netgear WND3700 or newer, just make sure it is supported -- of course this is less good when you are out and about, but great for fixed locations -- you can use an inverter in the car, but it will be more hassle than just using WiFi hotspot. A.
On 14/06/2014 3:42 PM, Andrew McGlashan wrote:
Netgear WND3700 or newer, just make sure it is supported
WNDR3700, I'm using a couple of older V1 units myself. http://www.netgear.com.au/home/products/networking/wifi-routers/wndr3700.asp... Cheers A.
On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 15:42:59 Andrew McGlashan wrote:
Yes on WiFi hotspot using Android, but most 2.x devices are too old to support 4G or new, but too budget to have all the right radios. The biggest problem with older gear is the radios that are supported -- that's the biggest reason to /need/ to update mobile phones too.
Kogan was offering 6G per month before Telstra stopped them from being too competitive. Aldi offered 5G per month for a reasonable price then 2.5G when Kogan wasn't competing and have since made their offerings even worse value for money. http://etbe.coker.com.au/2014/04/01/comparing-telcos-again/ Last time I investigated these things the best value for money on a phone plan was 4G of data per month for a $40 per month plan. There were some slightly better offers for data-only plans but the difference wasn't great and the charges for SMS and calls were unreasonable. I find it difficult to stick within the 2G per month limit of my phone plan on 3G. I don't have problems with transfer speed, any transfer that is large enough for 3G speed to be a problem is going to be a quota problem first. A test with the speedtest.net app says that I'm getting 1.98Mbps download and 0.54Mbps upload speed. That compares to 6.4Mbps/0.8Mbps for my home ADSL connection. 3G downloads on my phone which has a 2G quota are 1/3 the speed of my home ADSL which has a 150G quota. If my phone quota was 50G per month then I MIGHT have a problem with 3G speed, but otherwise I won't. Every Android phone I've ever owned has been able to play Youtube at normal speed over 3G, that includes the Xperia X10i and Samsung Galaxy S. It seems to me that Youtube is the only common use of Android phones that involves large time sensitive data transfers.
Still, I think it is better to run a dedicated router, such as a Netgear WND3700 or newer, just make sure it is supported -- of course this is less good when you are out and about, but great for fixed locations -- you can use an inverter in the car, but it will be more hassle than just using WiFi hotspot.
Of course an Android phone can be considered a "dedicated router". -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
On 15/06/2014 10:39 AM, Russell Coker wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 15:42:59 Andrew McGlashan wrote:
Yes on WiFi hotspot using Android, but most 2.x devices are too old to support 4G or new, but too budget to have all the right radios. The biggest problem with older gear is the radios that are supported -- that's the biggest reason to /need/ to update mobile phones too.
Kogan was offering 6G per month before Telstra stopped them from being too competitive.
Yes, we know all about that, no argument about Telstra there, but the service was a limited type service anyway -- the way the plan worked was wonky in itself, allowing them to /forever/ chop off the top users for using too much of the /unlimited/ components that were included. Please to help with clarity, use GB for quota and just G for network capability.
Aldi offered 5G per month for a reasonable price then 2.5G when Kogan wasn't competing and have since made their offerings even worse value for money.
Yes, but you have to go by current plans. I have a mobile broadband only plan that gives me 10GB per month on 4G on a month-by-month basis for $39.99 per month. There are no calls or SMS, but I've got a phone on a different plan for normal mobile phone use that is very reasonable. Unfortunately that phone plan is not available to new users; I pay a dollar per month plus usage at very low rate, said plan is mostly used for just incoming calls anyway. I use different options for outgoing calls generally. In any case, this topic is about broadband, not phone usage with broadband add-on. 2GB plans on 3G are available at $15.99 per month, also on month-to-month contract. 5GB for $24.99 and 10GB at $34.99 -- the 4G plan with 10GB is just $5 more than the 3G plan with same quota, but with the potential for far greater speeds and also much less latency on the 4G/4Gplus Optus network.
I find it difficult to stick within the 2G per month limit of my phone plan on 3G. I don't have problems with transfer speed, any transfer that is large enough for 3G speed to be a problem is going to be a quota problem first.
That's probably because of the 1MB data chunks that I told you to be wary of previously, but you never thought that was a problem.
3G downloads on my phone which has a 2G quota are 1/3 the speed of my home ADSL which has a 150G quota. If my phone quota was 50G per month then I MIGHT have a problem with 3G speed, but otherwise I won't.
Fair enough.
Every Android phone I've ever owned has been able to play Youtube at normal speed over 3G, that includes the Xperia X10i and Samsung Galaxy S. It seems to me that Youtube is the only common use of Android phones that involves large time sensitive data transfers.
Okay.
Still, I think it is better to run a dedicated router, such as a Netgear WND3700 or newer, just make sure it is supported -- of course this is less good when you are out and about, but great for fixed locations -- you can use an inverter in the car, but it will be more hassle than just using WiFi hotspot.
Of course an Android phone can be considered a "dedicated router".
Sure, an Android phone can be a "dedicated router", but you need to keep it plugged in and the phone needs to be able to remain powered without needing to unplug and replug the charger. Having something like a WNDR3700 (or newer, you probably can't get the 3700 now, unless second hand from eBay, but that's probably not a good option due to shipping costs as well as the low cost of brand new gear today with full warranty), you also have gigabit networking ports available for wired networking tasks. If you don't want gigabit ports, then you can go much cheaper with a TP-Link unit. Cheers A.
Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> writes:
for instance a box running ROOTer [1] (a version of DD-WRT) [...] I am of the view that the public IP (or carrier grade NAT IP), should not be public facing directly on equipment that /may/ have any kind of vulnerable component [...] Linux.
Um, DD-WRT isn't a magically invincible Linux distro just because it targets embedded systems. I have no cite, but ISTR hearing about the DD-WRT developers releasing a stable release that allowed full admin access by default from one of their for-profit customers' IP addresses. And their response was "oh that was a mistake, but it's totally fine to keep running it, because I happen to know that address isn't in use at the moment." That said, if you have >1 host it's reasonable to put them all behind a single bastion.
participants (11)
-
Allan Duncan -
Andrew McGlashan -
Andy Greig -
Erik Christiansen -
Jason White -
Jeremy Visser -
Roger -
Russell Coker -
Toby Corkindale -
trentbuck＠gmail.com -
zlinw＠mcmedia.com.au