
I am looking for a set (3 dvd's) of Debian 7.0.0 AMD64 iso images, I wonder if someone with plenty of data gigabytes spare could get this for me please. The preffered method is for me to post to the person concerned a portable drive and for them to download the images and copy them to the drive. To my dismay I found last time I did not include enough return postage. The reason to get the images and not the DVD's themselves is I have found the DVD/CD's are not a reliable means of storage. Now I do have broadband via the Virgin 3G mobile network (Optus is the carrier) but the data is $150 for 12 gig (Note 1), the 3 DVD images being around that size. The data on the images will be reconsitiuted back into a local Debian repository. Note 1: Its actually reasonably fast, the cost though is way to high for downloading large quantities of data. It being one of the prices for living in a quiet rural setting. Lindsay zlinw @mcmedia .com .au

On 9/05/2013 9:55 AM, zlinw@mcmedia.com.au wrote:
I am looking for a set (3 dvd's) of Debian 7.0.0 AMD64 iso images, I wonder if someone with plenty of data gigabytes spare could get this for me please. The preffered method is for me to post to the person concerned a portable drive and for them to download the images and copy them to the drive. To my dismay I found last time I did not include enough return postage.
The reason to get the images and not the DVD's themselves is I have found the DVD/CD's are not a reliable means of storage.
Now I do have broadband via the Virgin 3G mobile network (Optus is the carrier) but the data is $150 for 12 gig (Note 1), the 3 DVD images being around that size. The data on the images will be reconsitiuted back into a local Debian repository.
Note 1: Its actually reasonably fast, the cost though is way to high for downloading large quantities of data. It being one of the prices for living in a quiet rural setting.
Lindsay zlinw @mcmedia .com .au _______________________________________________ luv-main mailing list luv-main@luv.asn.au http://lists.luv.asn.au/listinfo/luv-main Have replied off-list to Lindsay offering assistance with this (just so others know it's being handled).
cheers Brian

On 09/05/13 09:55, zlinw@mcmedia.com.au wrote:
Now I do have broadband via the Virgin 3G mobile network (Optus is the carrier) but the data is $150 for 12 gig (Note 1), the 3 DVD images being around that size. The data on the images will be reconsitiuted back into a local Debian repository.
If you can get the Optus network out there, why not go with a cheaper Optus reseller? Eg. These guys do 15G for a third of that price per month! (It says 4G, but in the fine print says that outside of the 4G coverage, it'll just fall back to 3G) http://www.vaya.net.au/?option=Data

On Thu, 9 May 2013, Toby Corkindale <toby.corkindale@strategicdata.com.au> wrote:
On 09/05/13 09:55, zlinw@mcmedia.com.au wrote:
Now I do have broadband via the Virgin 3G mobile network (Optus is the carrier) but the data is $150 for 12 gig (Note 1), the 3 DVD images being around that size. The data on the images will be reconsitiuted back into a local Debian repository.
If you can get the Optus network out there, why not go with a cheaper Optus reseller? Eg. These guys do 15G for a third of that price per month! (It says 4G, but in the fine print says that outside of the 4G coverage, it'll just fall back to 3G)
https://www.koganmobile.com.au/plans/ Kogan has 6G of data per month and unlimited calls within Australia for $299 per annum. They account for data in 1MB increments though which theoretically could mean you get much more data use recorded but in practice doesn't seem to make much difference as a "session" is apparently some hours in the normal course of operation. So Kogan has 6G per month for an average price of $25 per month (when on the $299 per annum pre-paid) compared to Vaya being $33 per month for 10G with 1KB accounting. Also Kogan is on the Telstra 3G network and I've verified it to work where the Optus network is unavailable. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/

On 9/05/2013 7:44 PM, Russell Coker wrote:
Kogan has 6G of data per month and unlimited calls within Australia for $299 per annum. They account for data in 1MB increments though which theoretically could mean you get much more data use recorded but in practice doesn't seem to make much difference as a "session" is apparently some hours in the normal course of operation.
BUYER BEWARE! That's the best I can say, particularly when it comes to Kogan. There's all sorts of issues with Kogan and Aldi for that matter as ispOne is selling the service wholesale /for/ Telstra, but not, it seems with any kind of endorsement by Telstra -- Telstra are definitely pissed over these plans, and Telstra have very big pockets to destroy competitors -- heck they closed the iBurst network by simply buying out the spectrum. There is currently a court case b/w Kogan and it's supplier; people using Kogan services have been disconnected by ispOne. To Kogan's credit, they are fighting this -- whether they'll be successful, well, only time will tell. However, given the base product is from Telstra Wholesale in a round about way, I don't like Kogan's long chances here. The data counting of per MB (Kogan and Aldi) vs per KB is also a major problem, choose your plan wisely. Oh and if I was the government, I would put a stop to the practices of Kogan, that is, avoiding GST by selling to Australians IN Australia, but from an "overseas supplier" .... well, the sooner we get a fair market place, the better. Let me re-iterate, Kogan sells grey import product -- Samsung has said that they would be applying updates to geographic locations based on the target product's market, which means that a 9500 S4 will not be expected to get updates over the AU model 9505 S4 when being used in AU. Also, the 9500 doesn't include any 4G capability. Buy the AU version from an AU retailer, giving full warranty protection and a proper GST inclusive tax invoice and you'll get better support through Samsung (warranty and official software updates). Again, buyer beware. Russell and others here in the past have given Kogan business and support their practices, I know that, I don't need to hear that again. I do not support Kogan today and I will likely never support them for the reasons given. Cheers A.

Oh and if I was the government, I would put a stop to the practices of Kogan, that is, avoiding GST by selling to Australians IN Australia, but from an "overseas supplier" .... well, the sooner we get a fair market place, the better.
How are they doing this? Imports are still subject to GST, although I believe it's the responsibility of the importer. Is it as simple as taking the position that "it's up to the customer to settle the GST with the ATO for imported services, if they don't do this we can hardly be to blame"? James

On 10/05/2013 12:36 PM, James Harper wrote:
Oh and if I was the government, I would put a stop to the practices of Kogan, that is, avoiding GST by selling to Australians IN Australia, but from an "overseas supplier" .... well, the sooner we get a fair market place, the better.
How are they doing this? Imports are still subject to GST, although I believe it's the responsibility of the importer. Is it as simple as taking the position that "it's up to the customer to settle the GST with the ATO for imported services, if they don't do this we can hardly be to blame"?
Anyone can buy any single item or group of items from overseas -- if the total order value is low enough, then GST is not applicable. If Kogan bought supplies of product in to AU and then distributed them, they wouldn't be able to avoid GST (unless they imported products one by one). They supply the product from their overseas counterpart directly to you, one at a time, and at a cost that means no GST is applicable. I don't believe that Kogan sells products that cost more than $1,000 -- so as long as they sell one per order, then they can get away with this. Not sure what happens if you try to order 2x 9500 S4 units on one order, but I think they would have to force you to place two separate orders OR you pay GST on the import if it is properly declared. Cheers A.

On 10/05/2013 12:36 PM, James Harper wrote:
Oh and if I was the government, I would put a stop to the practices of Kogan, that is, avoiding GST by selling to Australians IN Australia, but from an "overseas supplier" .... well, the sooner we get a fair market place, the better.
How are they doing this? Imports are still subject to GST, although I believe it's the responsibility of the importer. Is it as simple as taking the position that "it's up to the customer to settle the GST with the ATO for imported services, if they don't do this we can hardly be to blame"?
Anyone can buy any single item or group of items from overseas -- if the total order value is low enough, then GST is not applicable.
Ah. I thought you meant they were skipping GST on the data & call charges somehow, but you were talking about hardware. James

Hi, On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 11:54 AM, Andrew McGlashan < andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> wrote:
On 9/05/2013 7:44 PM, Russell Coker wrote:
Kogan has 6G of data per month and unlimited calls within Australia for $299 per annum. They account for data in 1MB increments though which theoretically could mean you get much more data use recorded but in practice doesn't seem to make much difference as a "session" is apparently some hours in the normal course of operation.
BUYER BEWARE! That's the best I can say, particularly when it comes to Kogan.
Agreed on the Buyer Beware statement, but if you search RC's comments on the subject of 3G data plans/costs/value for money the last couple of years you may find that there is a thread of tryout/discovery as to what is a valid deal and what is not. That is, RC manages to eek out the best deals on paper, experiments, then HAS reported back to the list if the plan did not work out.
There's all sorts of issues with Kogan and Aldi for that matter as ispOne is selling the service wholesale /for/ Telstra, but not, it seems with any kind of endorsement by Telstra -- Telstra are definitely pissed over these plans, and Telstra have very big pockets to destroy competitors -- heck they closed the iBurst network by simply buying out the spectrum. There is currently a court case b/w Kogan and it's supplier; people using Kogan services have been disconnected by ispOne. To Kogan's credit, they are fighting this -- whether they'll be successful, well, only time will tell. However, given the base product is from Telstra Wholesale in a round about way, I don't like Kogan's long chances here.
Crazy Johns, went through a similar ordeal....but won a large payout in the end. All it took was persistence...deep pockets or not, Telstra does have a duty to adhere to the law....and can be forced to when push comes to shove.
Oh and if I was the government, I would put a stop to the practices of Kogan, that is, avoiding GST by selling to Australians IN Australia, but from an "overseas supplier" .... well, the sooner we get a fair market place, the better.
Government on all sides is looking into this , but at present, the cost of admin and recovery is far greater than the amount gathered by the GST. Remember, imports over $1000 are subject to GST
Let me re-iterate, Kogan sells grey import product -- Samsung has said that they would be applying updates to geographic locations based on the target product's market, which means that a 9500 S4 will not be expected to get updates over the AU model 9505 S4 when being used in AU. Also, the 9500 doesn't include any 4G capability. Buy the AU version from an AU retailer, giving full warranty protection and a proper GST inclusive tax invoice and you'll get better support through Samsung (warranty and official software updates).
Perhaps we should be a little clearer here. Most "Grey" imports are deemed such by the manufacturer!. Your Samsung example is case in point. They create artificial geographic market borders then sell to each on different terms. The fact we pay more for prop. software is another example of this. Kogan has found a way to work around that and I argue it is to all of our economic benefit whether you buy from him or not. Kogan is a disruptor trying to undermine the absolute control that a manufacturer tries to excersize in global markets. Without that business getting "in the road", Gerry Harvey would be charging 30% more for TVs in this country make no mistake.
Again, buyer beware. Russell and others here in the past have given Kogan business and support their practices, I know that, I don't need to hear that again.
I politely disagree. RC has always reported back on list if there was an issue. Whilst I do not agree with RC on some issues.....I can not fault the honest appraisals and analysis of these sorts of cost/benefit subjects! ...and I hope it continues!
I do not support Kogan today and I will likely never support them for the reasons given.
A lot of people in my Model Aircraft Hobby said that about these guys a few years back: http://hobbyking.com ...but now at least 90% of our club is buying at least some of their "stuff" from them. Kogan, Hobbyking and any other number of other online only retailers are simply reflecting the merchanidising and marketing concepts/possibilities described here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_tail It pisses the hell out of the Telstra's, Samsungs and Gerry Harveys....but in the end, consumers benefit to some degree. I have NEVER purchased a Kogan item....but I am really glad he is there cos I have probably saved thousands the last few years when shopping at JB or Hardly Normal simply because he exists ! Rgds BW

Hi, On 10/05/2013 3:27 PM, Brent Wallis wrote:
Agreed on the Buyer Beware statement, but if you search RC's comments on the subject of 3G data plans/costs/value for money the last couple of years you may find that there is a thread of tryout/discovery as to what is a valid deal and what is not. That is, RC manages to eek out the best deals on paper, experiments, then HAS reported back to the list if the plan did not work out.
RC.... let's not go there.
Crazy Johns, went through a similar ordeal....but won a large payout in the end.
Yes, CJ had the best deal with Telstra way back ... nobody has any hope of getting any kind of deal like that ever again from Telstra.
All it took was persistence...deep pockets or not, Telstra does have a duty to adhere to the law....and can be forced to when push comes to shove.
If they can't find a loophole, they'll use. They can bully you with over zealous legal gang, it just might be too costly to get justice, it often is for the average person and/or small company.
Oh and if I was the government, I would put a stop to the practices of Kogan, that is, avoiding GST by selling to Australians IN Australia, but from an "overseas supplier" .... well, the sooner we get a fair market place, the better.
Government on all sides is looking into this , but at present, the cost of admin and recovery is far greater than the amount gathered by the GST. Remember, imports over $1000 are subject to GST
I understand, but this is very blatant. It is one of the things that government must get a better handle on -- just like the profits of Google and other major multinationals that trade here.
Let me re-iterate, Kogan sells grey import product -- Samsung has said that they would be applying updates to geographic locations based on the target product's market, which means that a 9500 S4 will not be expected to get updates over the AU model 9505 S4 when being used in AU. Also, the 9500 doesn't include any 4G capability. Buy the AU version from an AU retailer, giving full warranty protection and a proper GST inclusive tax invoice and you'll get better support through Samsung (warranty and official software updates).
Perhaps we should be a little clearer here.
Most "Grey" imports are deemed such by the manufacturer!.
Yes, I agree. I certainly don't think we should be paying more, just for being in AU. However, take the 9500 S4 vs the 9505 S4 -- the Kogan price doesn't represent value even sans GST. Their best price today seems to be $699, but for not much more you can have the AU product and be able to claim GST back (as a business). A Melbourne supplier of unbranded 9505 product is selling the 9505 for $799 today, including GST and normal manufacturer AU warranty (not third party warranty). Paying a little more for the peace of mind and a proper tax invoice is enough for me.
Your Samsung example is case in point.
True, but I didn't make the "rules", not happy about the situation either, but that's part of buyer beware too.
They create artificial geographic market borders then sell to each on different terms.
Yes.
The fact we pay more for prop. software is another example of this.
Absolutely, I agree.
Kogan has found a way to work around that and I argue it is to all of our economic benefit whether you buy from him or not.
Yes, but most suppliers won't match pricing on unlike product options; if it was AU stock and available on hand, then we would be better off from a consumer point of view. As it is, it almost becomes apples vs oranges, they aren't the same product.
Kogan is a disruptor trying to undermine the absolute control that a manufacturer tries to excersize in global markets.
Yes, I concede that they do help somewhat though .... but I'm not so sure it is enough to make a real serious difference.
Without that business getting "in the road", Gerry Harvey would be charging 30% more for TVs in this country make no mistake.
A rarely shop at "hardly normals" ... ;)
I politely disagree. RC has always reported back on list if there was an issue.
I appreciate your politeness, thank you. But I'll politely remain in disagreement.
Whilst I do not agree with RC on some issues.....I can not fault the honest appraisals and analysis of these sorts of cost/benefit subjects! ...and I hope it continues!
I don't, I think his analysis isn't really up to scratch, but enough said there -- glad you enjoy his input, I don't really enjoy it at all myself; to each, their own.
I do not support Kogan today and I will likely never support them for the reasons given.
A lot of people in my Model Aircraft Hobby said that about these guys a few years back: http://hobbyking.com
Okay, I get your point. Hopefully, they can be held accountable too one day though. Price is just one principle, there are always other considerations when making a "value and/or values" assessment.
...but now at least 90% of our club is buying at least some of their "stuff" from them. Kogan, Hobbyking and any other number of other online only retailers are simply reflecting the merchanidising and marketing concepts/possibilities described here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_tail
It pisses the hell out of the Telstra's, Samsungs and Gerry Harveys....but in the end, consumers benefit to some degree. I have NEVER purchased a Kogan item....but I am really glad he is there cos I have probably saved thousands the last few years when shopping at JB or Hardly Normal simply because he exists !
I think you will find that JB wouldn't be much different due to Kogan, but otherwise I do see your point. Kind Regards AndrewM

Guys, This entire thread is completely off-topic for luv-main. Can it please be moved to luv-talk? Someone asking for help obtaining a linux distribution is one thing, but a discussion of the pros and cons of different telcos and retailers is another. thanks, / Brett

Apologies.....did not look closely enuff at the headers... BW On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Brett Pemberton <brett.pemberton@gmail.com>wrote:
Guys,
This entire thread is completely off-topic for luv-main. Can it please be moved to luv-talk?
Someone asking for help obtaining a linux distribution is one thing, but a discussion of the pros and cons of different telcos and retailers is another.
thanks,
/ Brett
_______________________________________________ luv-main mailing list luv-main@luv.asn.au http://lists.luv.asn.au/listinfo/luv-main

On Thu, May 09, 2013 at 09:55:58AM +1000, zlinw@mcmedia.com.au wrote:
I am looking for a set (3 dvd's) of Debian 7.0.0 AMD64 iso images, I wonder if someone with plenty of data gigabytes spare could get this for me please.
this question comes up every so often (about every time there's a new debian or your-favourite-distro-here release). FYI, there are several online shops that sell debian CDs and DVDs quite cheaply, not much more than the cost of blank DVDs....and certainly a lot cheaper than the hours that someone else would spend downloading and burning DVD images and taking them to the post-office. probably cheaper than the cost of blank DVDs, posting them to someone, and then paying for return postage once they've been burnt. doing favours for people is great, but it seems a bit unreasonable to me to ask someone else to spend hours downloading and burning DVDs or filling up a USB drive when it's actually cheaper and less hassle to just order the DVDs from a vendor. Debian has a Vendor list at: http://www.debian.org/CD/vendors/ The only Australian vendor on the list doesn't seem active any more, so i'd suggest using one of the US vendors - most will ship to AU and offer several payment methods. for example, this one: http://www.shoplinuxonline.com/Debian-Special-Category_c_104.html this vendor sells a full set of 10 DVDs containing Wheezy for $16.95 USD or $24.95 with an "installation and configuration manual" (no idea what that is, for the extra $8 it's probably just a bunch of printed and stapled pages) They have Wheezy 3-DVD sets for $7.95 USD. they also sell other distros, and live DVDs and USB sticks and other stuff. shipping to Australia seems to be another $9.56 USD (3-DVD set) or $11.18 USD (10-DVD set with manual) for USPS First-Class Mail International. i'd guess delivery time to be a few days...certainly under 2 weeks at the very most. seems like a good deal to me. i would expect similar prices from other vendors. NOTE: i have no idea whether this particular vendor is reliable or not. i've never dealt with them. i just clicked their link randomly from the debian.org vendor list above. shop around and remember that 'caveat emptor' is an acceptable or even admirable business ethic in america....but at these prices, you're not risking very much. craig -- craig sanders <cas@taz.net.au>

On Tue, 14 May 2013, Craig Sanders <cas@taz.net.au> wrote:
On Thu, May 09, 2013 at 09:55:58AM +1000, zlinw@mcmedia.com.au wrote:
I am looking for a set (3 dvd's) of Debian 7.0.0 AMD64 iso images, I wonder if someone with plenty of data gigabytes spare could get this for me please.
this question comes up every so often (about every time there's a new debian or your-favourite-distro-here release).
FYI, there are several online shops that sell debian CDs and DVDs quite cheaply, not much more than the cost of blank DVDs....and certainly a lot cheaper than the hours that someone else would spend downloading and burning DVD images and taking them to the post-office.
probably cheaper than the cost of blank DVDs, posting them to someone, and then paying for return postage once they've been burnt.
[...]
shipping to Australia seems to be another $9.56 USD (3-DVD set) or $11.18 USD (10-DVD set with manual) for USPS First-Class Mail International.
Another option would be to visit a LUV meeting for the purpose of getting data. I'm sure that there are lots of people who wouldn't want to do the whole download/burn/post thing who would be happy to bring the images to a meeting and copy them on to a laptop or USB stick. As an aside, one thing I've considered doing is putting an old PC with a Wifi access point somewhere in the CBD with copies of various Linux distributions, TED talks, and random things I think are worth sharing. There's an office in Little Collins St where I might be able to do such things. If I can arrange hosting is there someone who can donate a Wifi access point to the project? -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/

Another option would be to visit a LUV meeting for the purpose of getting data. I'm sure that there are lots of people who wouldn't want to do the whole download/burn/post thing who would be happy to bring the images to a meeting and copy them on to a laptop or USB stick.
As an aside, one thing I've considered doing is putting an old PC with a Wifi access point somewhere in the CBD with copies of various Linux distributions, TED talks, and random things I think are worth sharing. There's an office in Little Collins St where I might be able to do such things. If I can arrange hosting is there someone who can donate a Wifi access point to the project?
You could configure the PC itelf to be the access point, can't you? It just needs a wifi device (usb). I presume you need it so ppl can download stuff from it? Its does not have to provide whole internet access? I think thats a great idea. Daniel.
-- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ _______________________________________________ luv-main mailing list luv-main@luv.asn.au http://lists.luv.asn.au/listinfo/luv-main
-- dan062 <dan062@yahoo.com.au>

On 14/05/13 13:20, Russell Coker wrote:
On Tue, 14 May 2013, Craig Sanders <cas@taz.net.au> wrote:
On Thu, May 09, 2013 at 09:55:58AM +1000, zlinw@mcmedia.com.au wrote:
I am looking for a set (3 dvd's) of Debian 7.0.0 AMD64 iso images, I wonder if someone with plenty of data gigabytes spare could get this for me please.
this question comes up every so often (about every time there's a new debian or your-favourite-distro-here release).
FYI, there are several online shops that sell debian CDs and DVDs quite cheaply, not much more than the cost of blank DVDs....and certainly a lot cheaper than the hours that someone else would spend downloading and burning DVD images and taking them to the post-office.
probably cheaper than the cost of blank DVDs, posting them to someone, and then paying for return postage once they've been burnt.
[...]
shipping to Australia seems to be another $9.56 USD (3-DVD set) or $11.18 USD (10-DVD set with manual) for USPS First-Class Mail International.
Another option would be to visit a LUV meeting for the purpose of getting data. I'm sure that there are lots of people who wouldn't want to do the whole download/burn/post thing who would be happy to bring the images to a meeting and copy them on to a laptop or USB stick.
As an aside, one thing I've considered doing is putting an old PC with a Wifi access point somewhere in the CBD with copies of various Linux distributions, TED talks, and random things I think are worth sharing. There's an office in Little Collins St where I might be able to do such things. If I can arrange hosting is there someone who can donate a Wifi access point to the project?
It sounds like quite a nice idea, except.. who do you think would use it? I dare say anyone who wants those things (TED talks, Linux distros) and lives in Melbourne would already have internet access themselves. Whereas someone who wants those things but lives outside Melbourne probably wouldn't travel to the city just to sit on the pavement for hours copying files until their battery goes flat. If Lindsay or someone was going to make the long trip to the CBD, they could ask if they can meet up with someone at lunch to pick up files on a USB key. Or, you could just NOT rent the office and run the PC, and take the money you save and use it to post free USB keys out to anyone who asks. I dare say the hundreds of dollars saved in electricity costs alone would cover media and postage costs for 100% of requests per year. Of course I could have misunderstood the purpose. Were you thinking you would pick up random passers by who saw a wifi network pop up called "Free Linux Distros" on their phone, and they thought "why yes, I'll download the entire Ubuntu LTS repository onto my Nokia while I wait for this nightbus!" (Because the average interval between trams isn't long enough to grab that much data) Don't let me stop you though, but I'm not really sure it's worth your time? T

On Tue, 14 May 2013, Toby Corkindale <toby.corkindale@strategicdata.com.au> wrote:
It sounds like quite a nice idea, except.. who do you think would use it? I dare say anyone who wants those things (TED talks, Linux distros) and lives in Melbourne would already have internet access themselves.
Internode's cheapest plan has a 30G per month quota. Bigpond has one with a 5G quota. People who use only 3G net access (as my parents did until recently) can have a quota as small as 1G per month or less. If I was able to keep my data use below the 6G from my Kogan phone and if I didn't do any server stuff at home then I could cancel my ADSL connection and save a reasonable amount of money.
Whereas someone who wants those things but lives outside Melbourne probably wouldn't travel to the city just to sit on the pavement for hours copying files until their battery goes flat.
Yes sitting on the pavement for hours wouldn't be fun. Fortunately in the CBD there's lots of public bench seating, cafes, and other places to sit. So we only need to get a suitable Wifi range to cover seating.
If Lindsay or someone was going to make the long trip to the CBD, they could ask if they can meet up with someone at lunch to pick up files on a USB key.
As has been demonstrated on this list some people will be inclined to say "just buy mail-order from the US". Also there is the occasional situation where someone needs a copy of a Linux distribution after hours. Some years ago one of my clients spent from 6PM to 8PM trying to get a copy of a Linux distribution to recover a server, after he failed to do that I rebuilt the system as a Debian server.
Or, you could just NOT rent the office and run the PC, and take the money you save and use it to post free USB keys out to anyone who asks. I dare say the hundreds of dollars saved in electricity costs alone would cover media and postage costs for 100% of requests per year.
I never said anything about renting an office. When there's some unused space in the office of an organisation that owes me a favor... http://yourchoice.vic.gov.au/ According to the above URL small-business GST-inclusive energy prices are around $0.25 per kWh. http://doc.coker.com.au/environment/computer-power-use/ According to my tests a Celeron with 3 IDE disks draws 58W when relatively idle (IE doing nothing but drives spinning). The same system took 45W with only a single disk, so with a RAID-1 array it would be about 53W. That means every year it would use 0.052*24*365.25 == 455.8kWh and at a rate of $0.25 per kWh that means about $114 in electricity. $114 might cover all the requests that people make, but I doubt it would cover all the people who want such data. Also when running such a system I could give accounts to anyone who can be trusted to obey copyright law and let them share whatever seems to be of interest.
Of course I could have misunderstood the purpose. Were you thinking you would pick up random passers by who saw a wifi network pop up called "Free Linux Distros" on their phone, and they thought "why yes, I'll download the entire Ubuntu LTS repository onto my Nokia while I wait for this nightbus!" (Because the average interval between trams isn't long enough to grab that much data)
I don't expect that people would download things without planning, few people even try to connect to a random Wifi AP. However one member of this list once told me an anecdote about someone who parked in front of his house for hours to download his MP3 collection, so it apparently does happen. But I think that if people knew that they could easily get something large and useful without using their quota (one of many examples is LCA talk videos) then it seems likely to get some use.
Don't let me stop you though, but I'm not really sure it's worth your time?
Sometimes you don't know if something's going to work out unless you do it. I had people tell me that Linux would never take off and I shouldn't waste my time on it. Then I had people say the same thing about SE Linux (with some conspiracy theories thrown in). Also I'd have never thought that GeoCaching or Hacker Spaces would be viable concepts until I saw them working. http://melbourne.wireless.org.au/ There's even Melbourne Wireless which has some conceptual similarities to what I'm suggesting. They have been around for years so they seem to be successful. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/

Hi, For those with an Internet connection, it usually isn't a big deal to add a torrent download or two and have that run in the background, you can limit speeds if you need to. USB sticks cost virtually nothing these days and a couple of dollars postage isn't much to help someone out. When I download torrents of Debian install disks, or any thing else for that matter, I leave the torrent running for a while, this helps others too. An open access point with Linux ISO files wouldn't interest me, unless I knew exactly who was running it and that it was trustworthy; but it's not so bad if you verify the ISO files properly first. It's been too easy, even with Linux [1] (_might_ be okay now, depends on your distro and setup) to cause havoc with a rogue USB stick or similar as well. Cheers A. [1] One example only, from quick google: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/USB-driver-bug-exposed-as-Linux-plug-...

On Tue, 14 May 2013, Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> wrote:
can limit speeds if you need to. USB sticks cost virtually nothing these days and a couple of dollars postage isn't much to help someone out.
Are you volunteering to do this? If so then I can try and collect some USB sticks via the LUV hardware library for your use.
An open access point with Linux ISO files wouldn't interest me, unless I knew exactly who was running it and that it was trustworthy; but it's not so bad if you verify the ISO files properly first.
When the ISO files come with SHA signatures that are GPG signed (as Debian install images do) then there are no issues with an open access point that you don't have with any other form of Internet access. If there aren't signed hashes of the data then no form of Internet access will save you. There have been many occasions in the past when FTP and web servers have been compromised and upstream source archives etc have been altered.
It's been too easy, even with Linux [1] (_might_ be okay now, depends on your distro and setup) to cause havoc with a rogue USB stick or similar as well.
How would someone do that? Linux doesn't have a run a program automatically when device is mounted "feature" unlike Windows. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/

On 14/05/13 18:01, Russell Coker wrote:
It's been too easy, even with Linux [1] (_might_ be okay now, depends on your distro and setup) to cause havoc with a rogue USB stick or similar as well.
How would someone do that? Linux doesn't have a run a program automatically when device is mounted "feature" unlike Windows.
Read the article -- the exploit targeted the kernel module that handles the USB port. It fetches the USB device's name automatically when you plug something in -- and it turned out there was a buffer overflow available there.

On 14/05/13 18:01, Russell Coker wrote:
It's been too easy, even with Linux [1] (_might_ be okay now, depends on your distro and setup) to cause havoc with a rogue USB stick or similar as well.
How would someone do that? Linux doesn't have a run a program automatically when device is mounted "feature" unlike Windows.
Read the article -- the exploit targeted the kernel module that handles the USB port. It fetches the USB device's name automatically when you plug something in -- and it turned out there was a buffer overflow available there.
I wouldn't worry too much. I suspect with the correct sort of fs corruption you could crash most kernels anyway [1]. You would need to get the user to mount the inserted USB but that's probably their intent if they have inserted it. FUSE FTW! [2] James [1] I have no evidence to back this up unless you count anecdotal evidence [2] It may still be possible even with FUSE

On 14/05/13 18:13, James Harper wrote:
On 14/05/13 18:01, Russell Coker wrote:
It's been too easy, even with Linux [1] (_might_ be okay now, depends on your distro and setup) to cause havoc with a rogue USB stick or similar as well.
How would someone do that? Linux doesn't have a run a program automatically when device is mounted "feature" unlike Windows.
Read the article -- the exploit targeted the kernel module that handles the USB port. It fetches the USB device's name automatically when you plug something in -- and it turned out there was a buffer overflow available there.
I wouldn't worry too much. I suspect with the correct sort of fs corruption you could crash most kernels anyway [1]. You would need to get the user to mount the inserted USB but that's probably their intent if they have inserted it. FUSE FTW! [2]
In the article linked: The attack vector was such that the attacker could plug the USB key into an unattended, but locked, machine.. then remove it after a couple of seconds and walk off. The victim would have no idea that while they were away their machine had been compromised. That is far more insidious than a user simply having their machine crash after the put a foreign USB stick into it. (And at which point they'd just go straight back to the person who gave it to them and yell at them.) T

I wouldn't worry too much. I suspect with the correct sort of fs corruption you could crash most kernels anyway [1]. You would need to get the user to mount the inserted USB but that's probably their intent if they have inserted it. FUSE FTW! [2]
In the article linked: The attack vector was such that the attacker could plug the USB key into an unattended, but locked, machine.. then remove it after a couple of seconds and walk off.
The victim would have no idea that while they were away their machine had been compromised.
That is far more insidious than a user simply having their machine crash after the put a foreign USB stick into it. (And at which point they'd just go straight back to the person who gave it to them and yell at them.)
I see. Yes that is worse. I thought we were talking about handing out Linux install media on USB though, which would imply mounting the FS on the target system, involving a similar amount of risk either way. James

Hi, On 14/05/2013 6:01 PM, Russell Coker wrote:
On Tue, 14 May 2013, Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> wrote:
can limit speeds if you need to. USB sticks cost virtually nothing these days and a couple of dollars postage isn't much to help someone out.
Are you volunteering to do this? If so then I can try and collect some USB sticks via the LUV hardware library for your use.
I haven't done this recently, but most people have adequate access to Internet somewhere that they don't need it. I did send out lots of CDs and DVDs from MLUG requests way back. If someone needs it and no offers come up, then I'm happy to give away the odd USB stick with ISO's on it.
An open access point with Linux ISO files wouldn't interest me, unless I knew exactly who was running it and that it was trustworthy; but it's not so bad if you verify the ISO files properly first.
When the ISO files come with SHA signatures that are GPG signed (as Debian install images do) then there are no issues with an open access point that you don't have with any other form of Internet access.
Yes, I can see the benefit, but benefits sometimes also come with risks.
If there aren't signed hashes of the data then no form of Internet access will save you. There have been many occasions in the past when FTP and web servers have been compromised and upstream source archives etc have been altered.
It's been too easy, even with Linux [1] (_might_ be okay now, depends on your distro and setup) to cause havoc with a rogue USB stick or similar as well.
How would someone do that? Linux doesn't have a run a program automatically when device is mounted "feature" unlike Windows.
Sure is possible, I did watch a video about it, but the video wasn't recent. The idea is that there are so many possible hook points, the one that turned out to be most vulnerable was the process that generated thumbnail images when you popped a USB stick in -- you need to have previews or thumbnail views enabled with a GUI, but that is happening more and more these days no matter what OS you run. It is not a fictional story, and it's not one of those "why Linux sucks / why Linux does not suck" type videos either. This was from youtube: Uploaded on 3 Feb 2011 Speaker: Jon Larimer Many people think that Linux is immune to the type of Autorun attacks that have plagued Windows systems with malware over the years. However, there have been many advances in the usability of Linux as a desktop OS - including the addition of features that can allow Autorun attacks. In this presentation, I'll explain how attackers can abuse these features to gain access to a live system by using a USB flash drive. I'll also show how USB as an exploitation platform can allow for easy bypass of protection mechanisms like ASLR and how these attacks can provide a level of access that other physical attack methods do not. The talk will conclude with steps that Linux vendors and end-users can take to protect systems from this threat to head off a wave of Linux Autorun malware. For more information visit: http://bit.ly/shmoocon2011_information To download the video visit: http://bit.ly/shmoocon2011_videos And here's the actual video from Shmoocon website: http://www.shmoocon.org/2011/videosNEW/Larimer-USBAutorun.m4v Cheers A.

Hi Lindsay,
I am looking for a set (3 dvd's) of Debian 7.0.0 AMD64 iso images, I wonder if someone with plenty of data gigabytes spare could get this for me please. The preffered method is for me to post to the person concerned a portable drive and for them to download the images and copy them to the drive. To my dismay I found last time I did not include enough return postage.
No probs - I'll do it. Contact me off list for address details &c. (I live in Woomelang: I know exactly where you're coming from.) Cheers, -- Trish Fraser, VVMZ4 91L2V -35.67910, 142.66607 Tue May 14 19:18:05 EST 2013 GNU/Linux 1997-2012 #283226 counter.li.org cassiopeia up 14 hour(s), 0 min. Mageia release 2 (Official) for x86_64 kernel 3.4.34-desktop-1.mga2

I am looking for a set (3 dvd's) of Debian 7.0.0 AMD64 iso images, I wonder if someone with plenty of data gigabytes spare could get this for me please. The preffered method is for me to post to the person concerned a portable drive and for them to download the images and copy them to the drive. To my dismay I found last time I did not include enough return postage.
First I have a set of DVD's on the way thank you all. I would like to thank all that contributed to the discusion no matter how far off topic. Although I found the off topic stuff quite frustrating. I believe I contirubuted to my own distruction by not making the original request clearer, ie that ISO images __were__ required and for what reason. I apologise to Craig Sanders here, although when answering any question its in the end a good plan to make sure your answering the question that was asked and not something you assumed was asked. Using Linux for 20 years, Lindsay
participants (12)
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Andrew McGlashan
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Brent Wallis
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Brett Pemberton
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Brian Parish
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Craig Sanders
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Dan062
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James Harper
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Lindsay Sprinter
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Russell Coker
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Toby Corkindale
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Trish Fraser
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zlinw@mcmedia.com.au