I was just looking at the options available on a Dell PowerEdge T110 which has a base price of $749 (it's a nice system, I just bought one for my home). A recent addition to the customisation page (which as far as I recall wasn't there last week when ordering my system) is a huge range of Red Hat and SUSE options. It's nice that Linux options are available, but it's a pity that they don't offer the cheap ones. The T110 makes a nice little workstation/server so one of the desktop licenses for RHEL might be a more useful option. It's rather surprising to see RHEL options going up to well over 20* the base hardware price and SUSE options going up to over 10* the base hardware price. Red Hat Enterprise Linux v6.4, x86_64, 1-2 Sockets, 1 Guest, 1 yr Red Hat Network, FI [add $1,393.70 or $23/week-1] Red Hat Enterprise Linux v6.4, x86_64, 1-2 Sockets, 1 Guest, 3 yr Red Hat Network, FI [add $3,971.00 or $50/week-1] Red Hat Enterprise Linux v6.4, x86_64, 1-2 Sockets, 1 Guest, 5 yr Red Hat Network, FI [add $6,618.70 or $77/week-1] Red Hat Enterprise Linux v6.4, x86_64, 1-2 Sockets, 4 Guest, 1 yr Red Hat Network, FI [add $2,091.10 or $30/week-1] Red Hat Enterprise Linux v6.4, x86_64, 1-2 Sockets, 4 Guest, 3 yr Red Hat Network, FI [add $5,958.70 or $70/week-1] Red Hat Enterprise Linux v6.4, x86_64, 1-2 Sockets, 4 Guest, 5 yr Red Hat Network, FI [add $9,930.80 or $111/week-1] Red Hat Enterprise Linux v6.4, x86_64, 1-2 Sockets, Unlimited Guest, 1 yr Red Hat Network, FI [add $3,485.90 or $45/week-1] Red Hat Enterprise Linux v6.4, x86_64, 1-2 Sockets, Unlimited Guest, 5 yr Red Hat Network, FI [add $16,556.10 or $179/week-1] SuSe Linux Enterprise 11 SP2,1-2SKT,1yr Support With Media(DIB),Physical [add $1,708.30 or $26/week-1] SuSe Linux Enterprise 11 SP2,1-2SKT,3yr Support With Media(DIB),Physical [add $4,495.70 or $55/week-1] SuSe Linux Enterprise 11 SP2,1-2SKT,5yr Support With Media(DIB),Physical [add $6,725.40 or $78/week-1] SuSe Linux Enterprise 11 SP2,1-2SKT,1yr Support With Media(DIB),Unlimited Virtual Licenses [add $2,153.80 or $31/week-1] SuSe Linux Enterprise 11 SP2,1-2SKT,3yr Support With Media(DIB),Unlimited Virtual Licenses [add $5,833.30 or $69/week-1] SuSe Linux Enterprise 11 SP2,1-2SKT,5yr Support With Media(DIB),Unlimited Virtual Licenses [add $8,620.70 or $98/week-1] SuSe Linux Enterprise Server 11 SP2,1-2SKT,1yr Support With Media(FI),Physical [add $1,708.30 or $26/week-1] SuSe Linux Enterprise Server 11 SP2,1-2SKT,3yr Support With Media(FI),Physical [add $4,495.70 or $55/week-1] SuSe Linux Enterprise Server 11 SP2,1-2SKT,5yr Support With Media(FI),Physical [add $6,725.40 or $78/week-1] SuSe Linux Enterprise Server 11 SP2,1-2SKT,1yr Support With Media(FI),Unlimited Virtual Licenses [add $2,153.80 or $31/week-1] SuSe Linux Enterprise Server 11 SP2,1-2SKT,3yr Support With Media(FI),Unlimited Virtual Licenses [add $5,833.30 or $69/week-1] SuSe Linux Enterprise Server 11 SP2,1-2SKT,5yr Support With Media(FI),Unlimited Virtual Licenses [add $8,620.70 or $98/week-1] Red Hat Virtualization (DIB) add $0.00 -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
Russell Coker <russell@coker.com.au> wrote:
I was just looking at the options available on a Dell PowerEdge T110 which has a base price of $749 (it's a nice system, I just bought one for my home).
That the offer Linux options suggests the hardware has been checked for compatibility, which is an advantage (even if one doesn't pay the extra $$$ for "official" RHEL or SUSE). Those Linux prices seem high, however. On the hardware side, I note that it's a tower configuration. Is it quiet enough for use on the desktop?
On Thu, 7 Nov 2013, Jason White <jason@jasonjgw.net> wrote:
On the hardware side, I note that it's a tower configuration. Is it quiet enough for use on the desktop?
It's very quiet. It makes much less noise than the wine fridge that is next to it. It is replacing a PowerEdge T105 that's about 5 years old. The T105 has a vibration problem that makes some metal parts in the case click and dust has reduced air-flow which causes some fan noise. But it's still not particularly loud. The Dell tower servers are all fairly quiet. On Thu, 7 Nov 2013, Toby Corkindale <toby@dryft.net> wrote:
You're paying for the support contract there, surely, not just the license to run it?
That would be the case if there was an option to run the software without paying for support. But payment isn't optional. Also there are significant differences in the support prices for the number of virtual machines. Going from 1VM to 4VMs may give a slight support price increase, but going from 4 to more probably won't be noticable. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
Hey, On 8 Nov 2013, at 1:58 am, Russell Coker <russell@coker.com.au> wrote:
On Thu, 7 Nov 2013, Toby Corkindale <toby@dryft.net> wrote:
You're paying for the support contract there, surely, not just the license to run it?
That would be the case if there was an option to run the software without paying for support. But payment isn't optional. Also there are significant differences in the support prices for the number of virtual machines. Going from 1VM to 4VMs may give a slight support price increase, but going from 4 to more probably won't be noticable.
That's an artefact of Red Hat and SUSE support licensing, though. Are you able to purchase the Dell box without an operating system at all? If so, you could then run a non-supported Linux of your choice (obviously) or pick something like Oracle Linux which provides both the binary installation media and all errata for free. You then have the option to pay for support later, if required. Cheers, Avi
On Fri, 8 Nov 2013, Avi Miller <avi.miller@gmail.com> wrote:
That's an artefact of Red Hat and SUSE support licensing, though. Are you able to purchase the Dell box without an operating system at all? If so, you could then run a non-supported Linux of your choice (obviously) or pick something like Oracle Linux which provides both the binary installation media and all errata for free. You then have the option to pay for support later, if required.
Yes you can purchase Dell systems without an OS, I did that. From what you say it seems that Oracle charges just for support while Red Hat and Suse charge binary license fees. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
Hi, On 9 Nov 2013, at 10:17 am, Russell Coker <russell@coker.com.au> wrote:
From what you say it seems that Oracle charges just for support while Red Hat and Suse charge binary license fees.
I'm sure Red Hat and SUSE would argue the point here. Technically, it's possible to get a trial version of each and install it, but you obviously don't get any updates without an active support subscription. Though, both Red Hat and SUSE prefer you buy at least a year's worth of support to get access to the binary installation media. Note that once your support expires, you no longer have access to those binaries, so save them somewhere. Red Hat goes further and requires that all Red Hat systems have an active support subscription if at least one does, which means you can't get support for only a subset of your fleet -- this is why a lot of companies are running Red Hat in production, but CentOS in development and test. Red Hat also have restrictions on the number of VMs you can run per support subscription. Oracle has a much simpler support structure: our binaries, updates and errata are all free to download and distribute. We provide a public yum service at http://public-yum.oracle.com (which is delivered via Akamai). This makes Oracle Linux the only Enterprise distribution that can be distributed by an ISV/IHV at no cost, which makes it excellent for appliances. We also don't have limitations on virtual guests. If you have a support subscription for the physical machine (and you only need one), you can run as many guests as you can cram onto the hardware. :) We also provide a bunch of additional tools at no cost: Enterprise Manager 12c Cloud Control is free to download and use to provision, patch, manage, monitor and alert on your Oracle Linux fleet, Oracle Clusterware support is included, Oracle OCFS2 clustered filesystem is included, XFS support is included with Premier support subscriptions (but the software is included regardless). So, all the bits you need to pay Red Hat or SUSE extra for, we include at no cost. Cheers, Avi
On Sat, Nov 9, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Avi Miller <avi.miller@gmail.com> wrote:
Oracle has a much simpler support structure: our binaries, updates and errata are all free to download and distribute. We provide a public yum service at http://public-yum.oracle.com (which is delivered via Akamai). This makes Oracle Linux the only Enterprise distribution that can be distributed by an ISV/IHV at no cost, which makes it excellent for appliances. We also don't have limitations on virtual guests. If you have a support subscription for the physical machine (and you only need one), you can run as many guests as you can cram onto the hardware. :)
We also provide a bunch of additional tools at no cost: Enterprise Manager 12c Cloud Control is free to download and use to provision, patch, manage, monitor and alert on your Oracle Linux fleet, Oracle Clusterware support is included, Oracle OCFS2 clustered filesystem is included, XFS support is included with Premier support subscriptions (but the software is included regardless). So, all the bits you need to pay Red Hat or SUSE extra for, we include at no cost.
Hmm, a compelling offer and food for thought. We have recently been informed that the RHEL "Self Support" Update subscription is no longer able to be applied to our production systems. It can only be used for test/dev systems. Think that may have been the rule from the beginning....? That particular license was around $390 AUD per annum last time purchased. We have used that to update a couple of prod Servers with simple needs. No Redhat Online Support required. We can do that no longer according to the rules. That issue combined with the statements above really tip the equation in Oracles favour.... BW
On Sat, 9 Nov 2013, Avi Miller <avi.miller@gmail.com> wrote:
Oracle has a much simpler support structure: our binaries, updates and errata are all free to download and distribute. We provide a public yum service at http://public-yum.oracle.com (which is delivered via Akamai). This makes Oracle Linux the only Enterprise distribution that can be distributed by an ISV/IHV at no cost, which makes it excellent for appliances. We also don't have limitations on virtual guests. If you have a support subscription for the physical machine (and you only need one), you can run as many guests as you can cram onto the hardware. :)
We also provide a bunch of additional tools at no cost: Enterprise Manager 12c Cloud Control is free to download and use to provision, patch, manage, monitor and alert on your Oracle Linux fleet, Oracle Clusterware support is included, Oracle OCFS2 clustered filesystem is included, XFS support is included with Premier support subscriptions (but the software is included regardless). So, all the bits you need to pay Red Hat or SUSE extra for, we include at no cost.
This is all really good, but it would be nice if it wasn't such a major PITA to get to the download. https://login.oracle.com/mysso/signon.jsp From that public-yum address you gave I get to the above page which wants me to register or sign up. Early this month (before I started this thread on luv-main) I tried to do that. I tried to create a new account which was a horrible process, the Javascript was really slow making my Q8400 system running Chromium too slow to keep up with my normal typing speed. Then when I got to the end it told me that my account was already registered - presumably from years ago. I went through the password reset process but got no email, maybe SpamAssassin didn't like it or maybe it didn't re-send afer grey-listing. CentOS and Debian are much easier, you just download and start work. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
On 11 Nov 2013, at 10:15 am, Russell Coker <russell@coker.com.au> wrote:
This is all really good, but it would be nice if it wasn't such a major PITA to get to the download.
We are limited by our export restrictions and the way Oracle has chosen to implement that is admittedly tedious, requiring an Oracle Single-Sign On account and logging into the E-Delivery portal. However, the Oracle Linux ISOs are available on several mirrors, including AARnet: https://wikis.oracle.com/display/oraclelinux/Downloading+Oracle+Linux http://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/pub/oraclelinux/ None of these require logins. :) Cheers, Avi
This is all really good, but it would be nice if it wasn't such a major PITA to get to the download.
https://login.oracle.com/mysso/signon.jsp
From that public-yum address you gave I get to the above page which wants me to register or sign up. Early this month (before I started this thread on luv-main) I tried to do that. I tried to create a new account which was a horrible process, the Javascript was really slow making my Q8400 system running Chromium too slow to keep up with my normal typing speed. Then when I got to the end it told me that my account was already registered - presumably from years ago.
I went through the registration as well. It completed and at the end it told me they will get back to me as they have to assess if I am a legimate user!! (whatever their criteria/process to decide that?)
I went through the password reset process but got no email, maybe SpamAssassin didn't like it or maybe it didn't re-send afer grey-listing.
CentOS and Debian are much easier, you just download and start work.
Scientific Linux is also a strip down Redhat based distro - good one. Daniel.
Hi, On 11 Nov 2013, at 10:38 am, djitnah <djitnah@greenwareit.com.au> wrote:
I went through the registration as well. It completed and at the end it told me they will get back to me as they have to assess if I am a legimate user!! (whatever their criteria/process to decide that?)
I believe (though I'm not 100% sure) that there is some checking to make sure you're not attempting to download Oracle products to a country that's covered by US export restrictions. I have no idea what the actual check is, though. Which is why I arranged for Oracle Linux mirrors, particularly the local AArnet one. :) Cheers, Avi
On 7 November 2013 10:43, Russell Coker <russell@coker.com.au> wrote:
It's rather surprising to see RHEL options going up to well over 20* the base hardware price and SUSE options going up to over 10* the base hardware price.
You're paying for the support contract there, surely, not just the license to run it?
participants (6)
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Avi Miller -
Brent Wallis -
djitnah -
Jason White -
Russell Coker -
Toby Corkindale