We are considering the possibility of a LUV bulk purchase of Raspberry Pi computers and related hardware to give better prices for LUV members. If you are interested then please contact me off-list. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
On 5/02/2013 11:53 PM, Russell Coker wrote:
We are considering the possibility of a LUV bulk purchase of Raspberry Pi computers and related hardware to give better prices for LUV members.
I would think this would be pretty "fruitless" -- the Raspberry Pi gear is already very cheap and I don't think you'll see any reduction without huge quantities. Have you been given any idea of a discount for volume or are just fishing to see? Also, the whole idea of the RPi is more geared towards education, rather than enthusiasts. I would also think that their might be better enthusiast options out there. A.
The biggest reduction will likely be shipping costs, which are non-trivial usually IIRC. Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> wrote:
On 5/02/2013 11:53 PM, Russell Coker wrote:
We are considering the possibility of a LUV bulk purchase of Raspberry Pi computers and related hardware to give better prices for LUV members.
I would think this would be pretty "fruitless" -- the Raspberry Pi gear is already very cheap and I don't think you'll see any reduction without huge quantities. Have you been given any idea of a discount for volume or are just fishing to see?
Also, the whole idea of the RPi is more geared towards education, rather than enthusiasts. I would also think that their might be better enthusiast options out there.
A.
_______________________________________________ luv-main mailing list luv-main@luv.asn.au http://lists.luv.asn.au/listinfo/luv-main
-- Sent from my phone. Please excuse my brevity. Regards, Matthew Cengia
On 06/02/13 08:58, Matthew Cengia wrote:
The biggest reduction will likely be shipping costs, which are non-trivial usually IIRC.
How could you reduce "Free shipping" any further? (Which is how much the shipping cost when I ordered a couple of RPIs late last year)
Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> wrote:
On 5/02/2013 11:53 PM, Russell Coker wrote:
We are considering the possibility of a LUV bulk purchase of Raspberry Pi computers and related hardware to give better prices for LUV members.
I would think this would be pretty "fruitless" -- the Raspberry Pi gear is already very cheap and I don't think you'll see any reduction without huge quantities. Have you been given any idea of a discount for volume or are just fishing to see?
Also, the whole idea of the RPi is more geared towards education, rather than enthusiasts. I would also think that their might be better enthusiast options out there.
On 2013-02-06 11:07, Toby Corkindale wrote:
On 06/02/13 08:58, Matthew Cengia wrote:
The biggest reduction will likely be shipping costs, which are non-trivial usually IIRC.
How could you reduce "Free shipping" any further? (Which is how much the shipping cost when I ordered a couple of RPIs late last year)
It wasn't free when I ordered my Pis from RS components around November last year. Not sure if Elements14 or others do free shipping. -- Regards, Matthew Cengia
On 06/02/13 11:27, Matthew Cengia wrote:
On 2013-02-06 11:07, Toby Corkindale wrote:
On 06/02/13 08:58, Matthew Cengia wrote:
The biggest reduction will likely be shipping costs, which are non-trivial usually IIRC.
How could you reduce "Free shipping" any further? (Which is how much the shipping cost when I ordered a couple of RPIs late last year)
It wasn't free when I ordered my Pis from RS components around November last year. Not sure if Elements14 or others do free shipping.
Element14 do free shipping on orders over $75. ie. You need to order either two RPis, or one RPi and some accessories in order to qualify. T
On Wed, 6 Feb 2013, Toby Corkindale <toby.corkindale@strategicdata.com.au> wrote:
On 06/02/13 08:58, Matthew Cengia wrote:
The biggest reduction will likely be shipping costs, which are non-trivial usually IIRC.
How could you reduce "Free shipping" any further? (Which is how much the shipping cost when I ordered a couple of RPIs late last year)
There are two ways that shipping could be "free". One is that the post office decides not to charge for the parcel and the other is that the cost of postage is included in the unit price. AFAIK "free shipping" always means the latter. Therefore any bulk purchase scheme that results in lower per-item payments to the post office gives the potential for discounts on the purchase price without reducing the per-item profit to the seller. But really anyone who isn't interested in purchasing a Raspberry Pi can just do nothing in response to this issue. Anyone who wants to purchase one can email me off-list and maybe get a discount, but if it turns out to not be possible to get a discount then it still costs nothing to send an email so there's no loss. If this deal doesn't end up working out then the only cost to random members of LUV will be that of forcing people to read a discussion with theories about postal prices. In terms of promoting computer education the relevane issue is that it's always the case that discounts get people interested in buying. If some people who had no previous plans to buy a Raspberry Pi get one and learn things because of a LUV deal then that will be a good thing. If people who planned to buy one just save some money through reduced postage costs then that's a good thing too. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
On 6/02/13 11:53 AM, Russell Coker wrote:
In terms of promoting computer education the relevane issue is that it's always the case that discounts get people interested in buying. If some people who had no previous plans to buy a Raspberry Pi get one and learn things because of a LUV deal then that will be a good thing. If people who planned to buy one just save some money through reduced postage costs then that's a good thing too.
Nothing wrong with that either way. I've already bought one (from RS). Wouldn't mind another one or two, but funds don't permit it ATM. :( Still yet to put mu Pi into service, I have a few purposes to choose from, it's definitely not a solution looking for a problem - it's which problem to choose! :) -- 73 de Tony VK3JED http://vkradio.com
On 06/02/13 12:15, Tony Langdon wrote:
On 6/02/13 11:53 AM, Russell Coker wrote:
In terms of promoting computer education the relevane issue is that it's always the case that discounts get people interested in buying. If some people who had no previous plans to buy a Raspberry Pi get one and learn things because of a LUV deal then that will be a good thing. If people who planned to buy one just save some money through reduced postage costs then that's a good thing too.
Nothing wrong with that either way. I've already bought one (from RS). Wouldn't mind another one or two, but funds don't permit it ATM. :( Still yet to put mu Pi into service, I have a few purposes to choose from, it's definitely not a solution looking for a problem - it's which problem to choose! :)
And then, having an hour or two to spend babysitting the Debian installer! Man, the Raspberry Pi is NOT a high performance device! I can see why Ubuntu spurned supporting it, and targeted the next ARM level as minimum spec. I have a BeagleBone, two MK802-like devices, and a Raspberry Pi model B. The Raspberry Pi is by far and away the slowest of them all. It's half the speed of the BeagleBone, and then the two Chinese Allwinner A10 devices are faster again. If you're serious about playing with small, low-power embedded-style devices, get the BeagleBone. The Linux support is excellent, there's lots of hardware you can add to it, and it has a million i/o methods. If you're less serious, and don't want to spend the money to get a Beaglebone, and just want a miniature Linux device, have a look at the Cubieboard: https://www.miniand.com/products/Cubieboard%20Developer%20Board It's about the same price as a Raspberry Pi, only you get double the memory, triple the CPU performance, a SATA port, more I/O ports, and it has 4GB of nand on-chip.
On 6/02/13 12:25 PM, Toby Corkindale wrote:
On 06/02/13 12:15, Tony Langdon wrote:
And then, having an hour or two to spend babysitting the Debian installer! Man, the Raspberry Pi is NOT a high performance device! That's a non issue for me. My applications can be run on a mid 1990s vintage Pentium PC running at 100 MHz or less. In fact, even a 486 will suffice for some of those uses. The real attraction is the 2-3W power consumption figure, since the Pi will be running 24x7.
-- 73 de Tony VK3JED http://vkradio.com
On Wed, 6 Feb 2013, Toby Corkindale <toby.corkindale@strategicdata.com.au> wrote:
If you're serious about playing with small, low-power embedded-style devices, get the BeagleBone. The Linux support is excellent, there's lots of hardware you can add to it, and it has a million i/o methods.
Toby, why don't you try and arrange a LUV bulk purchase deal for the small embedded-style Linux device of your preference. Ask for people to email you off-list if they are interested and then contact the wholesalers to see what discounts you can get. After that's done you have to collect the money and distribute the devices when they arrive - this may seem like hard work but it could turn out to be easier than discussing things on the list. Also you might try to get an expert on the system in question to meet LUV members. If the expert happens to not be available for a LUV meeting then arrange a dinner meeting. Feel free to arrange a meeting that suits your culinary preferences while keeping in mind the fact that someone who wants to buy a really cheap system probably won't want a really expensive meal and the fact that travel times determine the range of locations. I am totally serious about this. The more opportunities that LUV members have to meet experts on subjects related to Linux the better. Lots of LUV members either can't afford to attend LCA or can't spare the time, so when we find experts who are available locally to share their knowledge for free it's a real benefit for LUV members. The more opportunities that LUV members have to buy hardware at discount prices the better. There are lots of different devices that serve different needs, and giving everyone the opportunity to buy stuff that suits their needs cheaply is a good thing. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
Hi, On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Russell Coker <russell@coker.com.au> wrote:
I am totally serious about this. The more opportunities that LUV members have to meet experts on subjects related to Linux the better. Lots of LUV members either can't afford to attend LCA or can't spare the time, so when we find experts who are available locally to share their knowledge for free it's a real benefit for LUV members.
The more opportunities that LUV members have to buy hardware at discount prices the better. There are lots of different devices that serve different needs, and giving everyone the opportunity to buy stuff that suits their needs cheaply is a good thing.
A very big plus ONE! Despite our differences on some matters Russell I think your moves here and at other times on these things is what LUV is all about. Your efforts in these matters is and always has been admirable and fruitful. BW
On 06.02.13 12:54, Russell Coker wrote:
I am totally serious about this. The more opportunities that LUV members have to meet experts on subjects related to Linux the better. Lots of LUV members either can't afford to attend LCA or can't spare the time, so when we find experts who are available locally to share their knowledge for free it's a real benefit for LUV members.
The more opportunities that LUV members have to buy hardware at discount prices the better. There are lots of different devices that serve different needs, and giving everyone the opportunity to buy stuff that suits their needs cheaply is a good thing.
The bikeshedding has thrown up some interesting ideas, but fails to give credit for your efforts. It just reinforces how much easier it is to sit on the sidelines and criticise both the food and the entertainment, than to put on a party oneself. Given that your OP was an invitation to interested parties to take action off-list, I'm surprised at the hijacking of this thread. Erik
On 6/02/2013 4:58 PM, Erik Christiansen wrote:
Given that your OP was an invitation to interested parties to take action off-list, I'm surprised at the hijacking of this thread.
I wouldn't call it hijacking, but rather some other possible consideration and options. What's wrong with suggesting possible better or just simply different alternatives? The very suggestion that the RPi units are actually the "right" one to get is debatable (at least for some)... perhaps even Russell may have benefited from information about an alternative device, but he seems to have his mind set on just the RPi; of course that's his right. Others might need some convincing [or could benefit from discussion] when there are other, perhaps, more suitable options to consider for differing needs. Do we need ten threads on ten different model options? I think not. Sure anyone can do what Russell is doing and keep a tally of interest for the product that most interests them most. In the meantime, others can consider the options more broadly ... so a little friendly discussion doesn't hurt [for this thread], unless it limits Russell's ability to get the number of units he thinks might make a difference, but so beit if it does, that's life.... I'm sure Russell will get over it one day if not immediately. Cheers A.
Quoting Toby Corkindale (toby.corkindale@strategicdata.com.au):
If you're serious about playing with small, low-power embedded-style devices, get the BeagleBone. The Linux support is excellent, there's lots of hardware you can add to it, and it has a million i/o methods.
On a vaguely related matter, I'm looking into replacing the 2001-era VA Linux Systems model 2230 2U rackmount server running my main Internet presence (shell for me and a bunch of other people, Web, ftp[1], SMTP, Mailman mailing lists, DNS, ntp, rsyncd), with a fit-PC3. Primary advantage of the latter, other than accomplishing a generally necesary hardware refresh, is a great reduction in use of mains power. And noise production. Old New Est. total power draw 100W 15W CPU PIII/650 AMD G-T40E/1GHz[2] Physical RAM 1.5GB 8.0GB Disk space 89GB ~1TB I'll be going from 3 count of internal 3.5" SCSI drives to 1 internal SSD + a RAID1 pair of external 2.5" drives on eSATA, and going from three fans to none. Old: http://ebayimages.rswhost.com/301735/73414D.jpg New: http://www.fit-pc.com/web/images/fit-PC3-standard-front.jpg A good bit more money than a Beaglebone, but OTOH fully featured and enough server firepower for another decade. [1] http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Network_Other/ftp-justification.html [2] AMD G-series ('Geode') approximates Intel Atom, and is x86_64 arch.
On Wed, 6 Feb 2013, Toby Corkindale wrote:
If you're less serious, and don't want to spend the money to get a Beaglebone, and just want a miniature Linux device, have a look at the Cubieboard: https://www.miniand.com/products/Cubieboard%20Developer%20Board It's about the same price as a Raspberry Pi, only you get double the memory, triple the CPU performance, a SATA port, more I/O ports, and it has 4GB of nand on-chip.
Interesting, but.... 2amp @ volts (and $10 more). Hmmm, I'll stick with the pi thanks. It only needs to be able to flick a relay over every few hours and answer the occasional packet on port 80. -- Tim Connors
On 6/02/13 1:56 PM, Tim Connors wrote:
Interesting, but.... 2amp @ volts (and $10 more). Hmmm, I'll stick with the pi thanks. It only needs to be able to flick a relay over every few hours and answer the occasional packet on port 80.
Similarly, I know my applications will run comfortably on the Pi, and the lower power consumption is worth the compromise in performance (since the Pi is already well in excess of what I need in that department). :) -- 73 de Tony VK3JED http://vkradio.com
On 06/02/13 13:56, Tim Connors wrote:
On Wed, 6 Feb 2013, Toby Corkindale wrote:
If you're less serious, and don't want to spend the money to get a Beaglebone, and just want a miniature Linux device, have a look at the Cubieboard: https://www.miniand.com/products/Cubieboard%20Developer%20Board It's about the same price as a Raspberry Pi, only you get double the memory, triple the CPU performance, a SATA port, more I/O ports, and it has 4GB of nand on-chip.
Interesting, but.... 2amp @ volts (and $10 more). Hmmm, I'll stick with the pi thanks. It only needs to be able to flick a relay over every few hours and answer the occasional packet on port 80.
The Raspberry Pi requires a 1.5 amp supply and recommends a 2A. So not actually much difference there. Both the pi and the A10-based devices will rarely draw peak power.. if you're mostly idling, don't have wifi enabled, don't have sata in use, and don't have any USB devices sucking hundreds of milliamps, then you'll draw far less on average. But the supplies are rated at somewhat above the maximum draw.
On Wed, 6 Feb 2013, Toby Corkindale wrote:
If you're less serious, and don't want to spend the money to get a Beaglebone, and just want a miniature Linux device, have a look at the Cubieboard: https://www.miniand.com/products/Cubieboard%20Developer%20Board It's about the same price as a Raspberry Pi, only you get double the memory, triple the CPU performance, a SATA port, more I/O ports, and it has 4GB of nand on-chip.
Looks as a candidate too. "Optional WiFi"? The video on the site shows "WiFi" as a selection.. is there a device I can order with the device, or is there a list of supported devices? Thanks Peter
On 06/02/13 14:17, Peter Ross wrote:
On Wed, 6 Feb 2013, Toby Corkindale wrote:
If you're less serious, and don't want to spend the money to get a Beaglebone, and just want a miniature Linux device, have a look at the Cubieboard: https://www.miniand.com/products/Cubieboard%20Developer%20Board It's about the same price as a Raspberry Pi, only you get double the memory, triple the CPU performance, a SATA port, more I/O ports, and it has 4GB of nand on-chip.
Looks as a candidate too. "Optional WiFi"?
The video on the site shows "WiFi" as a selection.. is there a device I can order with the device, or is there a list of supported devices?
Not sure actually, but if you email the sales address, they've been helpful to me in the past, and the forums are alright too. I suspect it just means you get a tiny USB adaptor, like you can get for the BeagleBone, but maybe it's better? T
Toby Corkindale writes:
And then, having an hour or two to spend babysitting the Debian installer! Man, the Raspberry Pi is NOT a high performance device!
dpkg is a pathological I/O workload. Suggest you do the install in a chroot via debootstrap, then copy the resulting filesystem to your SD card or whatever in one hit. You might also consider setting unsafe-io in dpkg.cfg (once you understand the implications, of course). You can also gain a small saving by having dpkg skip documentation and localization when extracting packages: printf 'path-exclude %s\n' >>/etc/dpkg/dpkg.cfg \ /usr/share/{doc,info,locale,man,omf,gnome/help}
I can see why Ubuntu spurned supporting it, and targeted the next ARM level as minimum spec.
[Some background for the lurkers...] r-pi and one other (pre-dove marvell?) are ARMv6. AFAIK, *ALL* other kit still being produced is ARMv7. r-pi is the only thing keeping ARMv6 interest alive. Ubuntu armel targets ARMv7 and does not require an FPU. Ubuntu armhf targets ARMv7 and requires an FPU ("hard float"). Debian armel targets ARMv4t and does not require an FPU. Debian armhf targets ARMv7 and requires an FPU. Debian arm64 targets ARMv8 (64-bit). Raspbian armhf is Debian 7 recompiled for ARMv6 w/FPU. Currently Ubuntu armhf and Debian armel are officially supported. In their next release, Ubuntu drop armel and Debian support armhf. IMO r-pi is appropriate for the niche market where an arduino isn't enough, and a beefier armv7 system is too expensive. I recommend buying ARMv7 -- which board depends on your application, e.g. historically Marvell Dove is the only one with a SATA controller that wasn't daisy chained off the USB controller, so it was the obvious choice for a NAS. Ref. http://wiki.debian.org/ArmPorts https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM especially, these sections are useful background http://wiki.debian.org/ArmHardFloatPort#Performance_improvements_and_benchma... http://wiki.debian.org/ArmHardFloatPort#NEON http://wiki.debian.org/ArmHardFloatPort#Hardware
Hi Andrew and all, On Wed, 6 Feb 2013, Andrew McGlashan wrote:
On 5/02/2013 11:53 PM, Russell Coker wrote:
Also, the whole idea of the RPi is more geared towards education, rather than enthusiasts. I would also think that their might be better enthusiast options out there.
I bought an APC recently, which mentions: CX-01 DuinoMinte Mini Miniand Hackberry A10 Dev10 board MK808 Raspberry Pi Rikomagic MK802 I would like to have one which I can use as: - A portable Apple iPad Liberator for my daughter (to access USB sticks and SD cards etc. easily) - so supporting these media and having WiFi or Bluetooth support (BTW: the iPad iSSH app is an X Server, according to http://www.serverwatch.com/trends/article.php/3921606/8-iPad-Apps-to-Turn-Yo... :-) - A portable mini player for music and videos, so with working video output (e.g. HDMI) I want to have Linux on it.. After reading APC I tend to try Ricomagic MK802. Do you have experience with one of them, recommendations, other suggestions? Regards Peter
participants (11)
-
Andrew McGlashan -
Brent Wallis -
Erik Christiansen -
Matthew Cengia -
Peter Ross -
Rick Moen -
Russell Coker -
Tim Connors -
Toby Corkindale -
Tony Langdon -
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