Re: Latest generation laptops with Windows 8 preinstalled, EFI mess..
Hi Sam, just as a disclaimer: I did not test any Windows 8 boot process yet so it is all "mind games" based on my understanding, after reading a bit here and there - hopefully the right bits and nothing misleading. On Thu, 13 Dec 2012, Sam Varghese wrote:
From my personal experience, you can only have Windows 8 and Ubuntu on the same machine on separate drives [2]. This install was done in the bog standard way.
[2] http://www.itwire.com/opinion-and-analysis/open-sauce/57822-ubuntu-1210-and-...
"But you cannot install Ubuntu 12.10 64-bit on a Windows 8 secure boot machine which has a single hard drive." That makes sense, if you tell your machine to boot just what is signed, you cannot slip in a boot loader the machine does not know. So working as expected? Well, obviously there are ways around it, e.g. if the Windows 8 boot loader allows you to boot another OS from another partition. Former versions could, and it looks as it is still there. Hyper-V may give you another way to break free.. Anyway, you describe how to switch on the secure boot in the UEFI BIOS. http://www.itwire.com/opinion-and-analysis/open-sauce/57562-installing-windo... Just turn it off and install Ubuntu as usual? BTW: Can you still boot the Windows 8 installed with secure boot? (Obviously not the other way around, turning on secure boot broke the Windows 8 installed without secure boot, as you wrote). I find it odd that there seemed to be no way to put a key in manually. E.g. create a key, sign your new kernel with it, boot into UEFI BIOS and hammer it in. If it is a place which is read-only outside the UEFI setup, it should be safe and serve the purpose: Don't let me boot a kernel I did not want on my machine. Or did I overlook something? Regards Peter
On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 12:05:51PM +1100, Peter Ross wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012, Sam Varghese wrote:
From my personal experience, you can only have Windows 8 and Ubuntu on the same machine on separate drives [2]. This install was done in the bog standard way.
[2] http://www.itwire.com/opinion-and-analysis/open-sauce/57822-ubuntu-1210-and-...
"But you cannot install Ubuntu 12.10 64-bit on a Windows 8 secure boot machine which has a single hard drive."
That makes sense, if you tell your machine to boot just what is signed, you cannot slip in a boot loader the machine does not know. So working as expected?
No. A Linux distro that can boot on a PC/laptop that has secure boot enabled would necessarily have obtained a key from Microsoft. That would enable it to boot. Note that I said "you cannot install..." You can very definitely boot Ubuntu 12.10 64-bit on a PC/laptop on which secure boot is enabled.
Well, obviously there are ways around it, e.g. if the Windows 8 boot loader allows you to boot another OS from another partition. Former versions could, and it looks as it is still there.
I suspect that the inability of Ubuntu to recognise the single hard drive as having an operating system loaded (see the screenshot in my article) is due to the new filesystem which is implemented in some versions of Windows 8. It's called REFS. Ubunu (and other distros) can recognise NTFS. But to find out you'd have to ask Microsoft - and given the lack of proper information on the whole secure boot thing I doubt they would tell anyone things like this.
Hyper-V may give you another way to break free..
Anyway, you describe how to switch on the secure boot in the UEFI BIOS.
http://www.itwire.com/opinion-and-analysis/open-sauce/57562-installing-windo...
Just turn it off and install Ubuntu as usual?
The point is every single PC/laptop that comes with Windows 9 preinstalled will have secure boot turned on. How does Joe Public boot a Linux CD to have a look?
BTW: Can you still boot the Windows 8 installed with secure boot?
If you're asking whether I can boot Win 8 after installing Ubuntu on a second hard drive, the answer is yes. It boot by default. To get into Ubuntu you have to jump through a few hoops, all of which I have described in the article. OTOH, if you install Win 8 with secure boot and then turn off secure boot, you get locked out of your PC. I tried this and had to disconnect the hard drive, get into the UEFI and turn on secure boot to get the system working again.
(Obviously not the other way around, turning on secure boot broke the Windows 8 installed without secure boot, as you wrote).
I find it odd that there seemed to be no way to put a key in manually. E.g. create a key, sign your new kernel with it, boot into UEFI BIOS and hammer it in.
There is. But I set out to do it as an average user would.
If it is a place which is read-only outside the UEFI setup, it should be safe and serve the purpose: Don't let me boot a kernel I did not want on my machine.
Matthew Garrett is good on the technical details, so is James Bottomley. I really do not know the answer to this. Can I request you to please post to the list and not to copy me in? I am subscribed. Sam --- (Sam Varghese)
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