Morning all, Looking for recommendations for an NBN RSP. We're in one of the last areas to be built out, and it's finally time to switch from ADSL to FTTN. We're only ~100M or so from the cabinet so I'm expecting a reasonable connection (as far as FTTN is 'reasonable'). So far I've narrowed the list to Aussie Broadband and Superloop, which look reasonably on par. Any recommendations, or other suggestions? I'll also need to do an equipment upgrade in the near future. Thinking of replacing our stopgap all-in-one device with Ubiquiti kit, e.g. an EdgeRouter, POE AP, switch. Anyone have experience with this? Is it overkill for a small home network? Cheers, Tim
Also
I'll also need to do an equipment upgrade in the near future. Thinking of replacing our stopgap all-in-one device with Ubiquiti kit, e.g. an EdgeRouter, POE AP, switch. Anyone have experience with this? Is it overkill for a small home network?
My home network is a little over the top, but it works well and I'm able to do anything I might want. I have a FTTN connection which was using a draytek router in bridge mode but recently switch to a TP-LINK Archer VR1600v (in bridge mode) on the recommendation of a regional ISP owner I do work for. This increased my speed by close to 15Mbit to 92Mbit/28Mbit. This is connected to a PC router (6 ethernet ports) running a standard Linux and a 24 POE switch. I like the flexibility of a full Linux disto for my router. The WIFI is provided by three UniFi AP's and we use VoIP for the phones in the home office and five portable phones for the home service. I'm a fan of Proxmox and so I have a server with 16 drives running LXC and KVM images. This runs the PBX, UniFi Controller, MythTV Backend and a number of other services. So your question about overkill ? Good Internet with good WIFI coverage and all the wired Ethernet you can get is a great idea. The cost of power is probably the biggest issue and reducing this has been a focus of mine of the last few years. Cheers Mike
On 11/29/20 7:51 PM, Mike O'Connor via luv-main wrote:
This is connected to a PC router (6 ethernet ports) running a standard Linux and a 24 POE switch. I like the flexibility of a full Linux disto for my router.
I'm currently using OpenWRT, but, next time, I would prefer a device that can run a more typical Linux distribution. Are there small, relatively low-powered and quiet machines with multiple Ethernet ports suitable for the purpose?
The WIFI is provided by three UniFi AP's and we use VoIP for the phones in the home office and five portable phones for the home service.
Can Linux run 802.11ax interfaces yet as an access point?
On Wednesday, 2 December 2020 12:28:11 PM AEDT Jason White via luv-main wrote:
I'm currently using OpenWRT, but, next time, I would prefer a device that can run a more typical Linux distribution. Are there small, relatively low-powered and quiet machines with multiple Ethernet ports suitable for the purpose?
There is a serious lack of such machines. "Relatively low powered" by today's standards means a lot faster than servers were 20 years ago while much of the things that we do aren't more demanding than they were 20 years ago. So a company that sells servers with multiple ethernet ports would lost some of their profit in that market if they also sold small machines with multiple ports. Some models in the Intel NUC range support ECC RAM and multiple storage devices (suitable for RAID-1 on NVMe or SSD), if they had multiple ethernet ports they would be great little servers. I'm using some ARM systems from https://www.embeddedarm.com/ for work, they are reasonable hardware (although a little low powered) and run a slightly modified Debian distribution. They provide their own kernel and I'm not sure how they work with a regular kernel though. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
On 2/12/20 3:44 pm, Russell Coker wrote:
On Wednesday, 2 December 2020 12:28:11 PM AEDT Jason White via luv-main wrote:
I'm currently using OpenWRT, but, next time, I would prefer a device that can run a more typical Linux distribution. Are there small, relatively low-powered and quiet machines with multiple Ethernet ports suitable for the purpose? There is a serious lack of such machines.
"Relatively low powered" by today's standards means a lot faster than servers were 20 years ago while much of the things that we do aren't more demanding than they were 20 years ago. So a company that sells servers with multiple ethernet ports would lost some of their profit in that market if they also sold small machines with multiple ports.
Some models in the Intel NUC range support ECC RAM and multiple storage devices (suitable for RAID-1 on NVMe or SSD), if they had multiple ethernet ports they would be great little servers.
I'm using some ARM systems from https://www.embeddedarm.com/ for work, they are reasonable hardware (although a little low powered) and run a slightly modified Debian distribution. They provide their own kernel and I'm not sure how they work with a regular kernel though.
There are other options Traverse in Vic have https://www.crowdsupply.com/traverse-technologies/ten64 https://traverse.com.au/hardware-1.html I import Lanner hardware https://www.lannerinc.com/products/network-appliances/x86-desktop-network-ap... but they have minimum orders. I would be happy to arrange a group buy, I would need a minimum of 20 of a single unit. Cheers Mike
On 2/12/20 3:44 pm, Russell Coker wrote:
On Wednesday, 2 December 2020 12:28:11 PM AEDT Jason White via luv-main wrote:
I'm currently using OpenWRT, but, next time, I would prefer a device that can run a more typical Linux distribution. Are there small, relatively low-powered and quiet machines with multiple Ethernet ports suitable for the purpose? There is a serious lack of such machines.
"Relatively low powered" by today's standards means a lot faster than servers were 20 years ago while much of the things that we do aren't more demanding than they were 20 years ago. So a company that sells servers with multiple ethernet ports would lost some of their profit in that market if they also sold small machines with multiple ports.
Some models in the Intel NUC range support ECC RAM and multiple storage devices (suitable for RAID-1 on NVMe or SSD), if they had multiple ethernet ports they would be great little servers.
I'm using some ARM systems from https://www.embeddedarm.com/ for work, they are reasonable hardware (although a little low powered) and run a slightly modified Debian distribution. They provide their own kernel and I'm not sure how they work with a regular kernel though.
I just did a search on aliexpress using 'Network Appliances' and there are a large number of options there. Mike
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020, Jason White wrote:
On 11/29/20 7:51 PM, Mike O'Connor via luv-main wrote:
This is connected to a PC router (6 ethernet ports) running a standard Linux and a 24 POE switch. I like the flexibility of a full Linux disto for my router.
I'm currently using OpenWRT, but, next time, I would prefer a device that can run a more typical Linux distribution. Are there small, relatively low-powered and quiet machines with multiple Ethernet ports suitable for the purpose?
Interesting you say that. At the start of the pandemic, I replaced my network with openwrt everywhere - router, APs etc. It's nice having wireless all the way out to the far corner of the garden, complete with a VLAN for work's untrusted devices (trusted to them, not me), the IOT devices blocked off from talking to China, or if they do talk to china, not anything else in my network. I don't have the skills to configure iptables itself with the complex rules I've set up in openwrt, but I'm pretty confident it all behaves as my network diagram says it should. Given the risks involved in the last update of my router a few days ago to 19.07.5 (vlans were half expected to change, and I wasn't sure I would be able to access the router anymore), I had considered logically moving the router to an openwrt VM inside my proxmox instance so snapshots and rollbacks were trivial instead of having to solder uarts, but then realised my well-out-of-support switch would be exposed directly to the internet, and I don't know how kosher it is having proxmox protected only by VLAN separation. -- Tim Connors
On Monday, 30 November 2020 11:12:09 AM AEDT Tim Hamilton via luv-main wrote:
Looking for recommendations for an NBN RSP. We're in one of the last areas to be built out, and it's finally time to switch from ADSL to FTTN. We're only ~100M or so from the cabinet so I'm expecting a reasonable connection (as far as FTTN is 'reasonable').
For me the first criteria would be IPv6. Not only is IPv6 a very handy thing to have it's also a way of sorting out competency of ISPs, anyone who doesn't have it yet is seriously behind the times. So while iiNet is generally pretty good I wouldn't use them because of their lack of IPv6 support. For my home Internet connection I sometimes have my local name server forwarding to 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4, but when that stops working (probably due to ISP crapness) I change it to direct lookups. When doing direct lookups sometimes BIND insists on trying IPv6 which isn't enabled. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
On 30/11/20 3:53 pm, Russell Coker via luv-main wrote:
For me the first criteria would be IPv6. Not only is IPv6 a very handy thing to have it's also a way of sorting out competency of ISPs, anyone who doesn't have it yet is seriously behind the times. So while iiNet is generally pretty good I wouldn't use them because of their lack of IPv6 support.
I agree. Note that Internode, despite being owned by iiNet, do fully support IPv6 and have done for decades. I believe they were one of the first ISPs in Australia to deploy it. Hope that helps, Andrew -- mailto:andrew@sericyb.com.au Andrew Pam https://sericyb.com.au/ Manager, Serious Cybernetics https://glasswings.com.au/ Partner, Glass Wings
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 at 16:20, Andrew Pam via luv-main <luv-main@luv.asn.au> wrote:
On 30/11/20 3:53 pm, Russell Coker via luv-main wrote:
For me the first criteria would be IPv6. Not only is IPv6 a very handy thing to have it's also a way of sorting out competency of ISPs, anyone who doesn't have it yet is seriously behind the times. So while iiNet is generally pretty good I wouldn't use them because of their lack of IPv6 support.
I agree. Note that Internode, despite being owned by iiNet, do fully support IPv6 and have done for decades. I believe they were one of the first ISPs in Australia to deploy it.
I have Aussie Broadband - they support IPv6 and have wonderful Aussie based support, a nice App to see and configure things from your phone. Includes being able to kick your line and do connection tests and such! Not sure how good the IPv6 is as I haven't tried using it for the last six months. Vaguely tempted to look at one of the tutorials and try again some time. They are up to $10 / month more than TPG but I'm pretty happy with them. Don't forget if you want to run a service you'll need a static IP ($10 a month more) for TPG (last I looked) $5 for Aussie and be aware of port filters and CG-NAT (carrier grade NAT). That said Aussie BB will lift any filtering (you have to ask) and if you say you play games will pull you off the carrier grade NAT and your DHCP IP very rarely changes (mine never has in a year). I believe the $5 at Aussie will automatically get the CG-NAT + port filtering removed. Andrew
Andrew Worsley via luv-main <luv-main@luv.asn.au> writes:
I have Aussie Broadband - they support IPv6 and have wonderful Aussie based support, a nice App to see and configure things from your phone. Includes being able to kick your line and do connection tests and such!
Do Aussie Broadband still support IPv6? Last I heard they had to turn it off due to technical issues. Has this been resolved now? Telstra also supports IPv6. Although I have only used it on mobile. And (unless this has changed recently which I doubt) it isn't enabled by default. -- Brian May <brian@linuxpenguins.xyz> https://linuxpenguins.xyz/brian/
The ipv6 shutdown only lastest about 4 weeks until Cisco fixed a DHCP v6 memory leak. Aussies services all use DHCP not PPPoE meaning lower ping times, but the config for ipv6 is a little more interesting. Cheers Mike On 30/11/20 6:51 pm, Brian May wrote:
Andrew Worsley via luv-main <luv-main@luv.asn.au> writes:
I have Aussie Broadband - they support IPv6 and have wonderful Aussie based support, a nice App to see and configure things from your phone. Includes being able to kick your line and do connection tests and such! Do Aussie Broadband still support IPv6? Last I heard they had to turn it off due to technical issues. Has this been resolved now?
Telstra also supports IPv6. Although I have only used it on mobile. And (unless this has changed recently which I doubt) it isn't enabled by default.
Mike O'Connor <mike@pineview.net> writes:
Aussies services all use DHCP not PPPoE meaning lower ping times, but the config for ipv6 is a little more interesting.
In comparison I believe Internode still only supports PPPoE. With ADSL PPPoA was supported also, but now it is only PPPoE. -- Brian May <brian@linuxpenguins.xyz> https://linuxpenguins.xyz/brian/
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020, 7:22 pm Brian May via luv-main, <luv-main@luv.asn.au> wrote:
Andrew Worsley via luv-main <luv-main@luv.asn.au> writes:
I have Aussie Broadband - they support IPv6 and have wonderful Aussie based support, a nice App to see and configure things from your phone. Includes being able to kick your line and do connection tests and such!
Do Aussie Broadband still support IPv6? Last I heard they had to turn it
off due to technical issues. Has this been resolved now?
Telstra also supports IPv6. Although I have only used it on mobile. And (unless this has changed recently which I doubt) it isn't enabled by default.
Aussie BB did have to do that for a month or so but I thought it's working now. This says it is a beta program and you need to use whirlpool for support. https://www.aussiebroadband.com.au/help-centre/nbn/tech-support/ipv6/ But that said I haven't tried to get it working myself - so yep definitely need to do more checks on that before counting that. Andrew
On Monday, 30 November 2020 7:21:56 PM AEDT Brian May via luv-main wrote:
Andrew Worsley via luv-main <luv-main@luv.asn.au> writes:
I have Aussie Broadband - they support IPv6 and have wonderful Aussie based support, a nice App to see and configure things from your phone. Includes being able to kick your line and do connection tests and such!
Do Aussie Broadband still support IPv6? Last I heard they had to turn it off due to technical issues. Has this been resolved now?
Telstra also supports IPv6. Although I have only used it on mobile. And (unless this has changed recently which I doubt) it isn't enabled by default.
https://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/hw_feature_242 Whirlpool has a list of IPv6 supporting ISPs. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
On Monday, 30 November 2020 5:19:49 PM AEDT Andrew Worsley wrote:
I agree. Note that Internode, despite being owned by iiNet, do fully support IPv6 and have done for decades. I believe they were one of the first ISPs in Australia to deploy it.
I presume that Internode still charge more than iiNet branded services. The LUV server in Melbourne has no IPv6 because of this.
I have Aussie Broadband - they support IPv6 and have wonderful Aussie based support, a nice App to see and configure things from your phone. Includes being able to kick your line and do connection tests and such!
Not sure how good the IPv6 is as I haven't tried using it for the last six months. Vaguely tempted to look at one of the tutorials and try again some time.
The LUV VM in Germany has IPv6 so that can be a good resource for testing your IPv6 connection. You can also test https://ipv6.google.com but the advantage of testing with the LUV server is that I can trace what gets to the server and tell you about it. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
On 30/11/20 7:37 pm, Russell Coker via luv-main wrote:
I presume that Internode still charge more than iiNet branded services.
I believe so, yes. They are positioned as the "premium" brand. Cheers, Andrew -- mailto:andrew@sericyb.com.au Andrew Pam https://sericyb.com.au/ Manager, Serious Cybernetics https://glasswings.com.au/ Partner, Glass Wings
On 11/30/20 1:19 AM, Andrew Worsley via luv-main wrote:
I agree. Note that Internode, despite being owned by iiNet, do fully
support IPv6 and have done for decades. I believe they were one of the first ISPs in Australia to deploy it.
Indeed they were, and it used to be reliable over ADSL. I can't comment on the current situation, however. The IPv6 experience with Aussie Broadband has been favourable; family members of mine are using it, apparently without issue. It was (and presumably still is) necessary to opt into their IPv6 service via their Web application.
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 at 10:38, Jason White <jason@jasonjgw.net> wrote:
On 11/30/20 1:19 AM, Andrew Worsley via luv-main wrote:
I agree. Note that Internode, despite being owned by iiNet, do fully
support IPv6 and have done for decades. I believe they were one of the first ISPs in Australia to deploy it.
Indeed they were, and it used to be reliable over ADSL. I can't comment on the current situation, however.
The IPv6 experience with Aussie Broadband has been favourable; family members of mine are using it, apparently without issue. It was (and presumably still is) necessary to opt into their IPv6 service via their Web application.
I was with Internode for many years across several houses and was always happy with their service, though after Simon Hackett sold to iiNet and it's subsequent acquisition by TPG I jumped ship for a cheap and cheerful TPG branded service. Although I can't fault TPG's service, they don't do a lot extra in terms of network tools, provisioning and monitoring so I'm keen to get back onto a provider that has a few of those bells and whistles. Looks like ABB is the way to go in that regard. Thanks all for your input.
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 at 10:38, Jason White <jason@jasonjgw.net <mailto:jason@jasonjgw.net>> wrote: extra in terms of network tools, provisioning and monitoring so I'm keen to get back onto a provider that has a few of those bells and whistles. Looks like ABB is the way to go in that regard.
What specifics are you looking for? I have been with Exetel for a number of years and they remain competitive, reasonably helpful at tech support with typical competence level. Account and usage monitoring tools are pretty good. See screenshot. There is also network status info. HTH Rob
Andrew Pam via luv-main <luv-main@luv.asn.au> writes:
I agree. Note that Internode, despite being owned by iiNet, do fully support IPv6 and have done for decades. I believe they were one of the first ISPs in Australia to deploy it.
Note that Netflix/Internode/IPv6 can randomly stop working for now apparent reason for long extended periods of time. As in connections time out for no reason. It seems OK now, but for several weeks up to yesterday I had to run the following command just to get a connection from desktop (mobile was fine - curiously last time it was mobile that was bad): ip -6 route add unreachable 2600:1f14:62a:de80::/60 When I tried Netflix support I found that they were completely useless (started with "reboot your modem" and finish with "you should try another ISP") and made no attempt to try to diagnose the source of the problem. I have no idea if this is an Internode problem or a Netflix problem, but regardless, Netflix is the only website I have had this issue with. https://twitter.com/je_au/status/1081365409306034177 This might be relevant: https://twitter.com/je_au/status/1193642946479812613 Interesting, I last had these problems one year ago. Annual event? One year ago I had ADSL. I am now on NBN FTTN. -- Brian May <brian@linuxpenguins.xyz> https://linuxpenguins.xyz/brian/
Brian May via luv-main <luv-main@luv.asn.au> writes:
It seems OK now, but for several weeks up to yesterday I had to run the following command just to get a connection from desktop (mobile was fine - curiously last time it was mobile that was bad):
After my VDSL connection got recycled, the problem has come back again. Oh well. At least I have a work around now. -- Brian May <brian@linuxpenguins.xyz> https://linuxpenguins.xyz/brian/
Tim Hamilton via luv-main <luv-main@luv.asn.au> writes:
Looking for recommendations for an NBN RSP. We're in one of the last areas to be built out, and it's finally time to switch from ADSL to FTTN. We're only ~100M or so from the cabinet so I'm expecting a reasonable connection (as far as FTTN is 'reasonable').
If FTTN is not acceptable, you can now get an instant/free quote to upgrade to FTTP. https://www.nbnco.com.au/learn/technology-choice-program/online-quote But for me the quote was $41K... -- Brian May <brian@linuxpenguins.xyz> https://linuxpenguins.xyz/brian/
On Wednesday, 2 December 2020 7:47:13 AM AEDT Brian May via luv-main wrote:
Tim Hamilton via luv-main <luv-main@luv.asn.au> writes:
Looking for recommendations for an NBN RSP. We're in one of the last areas to be built out, and it's finally time to switch from ADSL to FTTN. We're only ~100M or so from the cabinet so I'm expecting a reasonable connection (as far as FTTN is 'reasonable').
If FTTN is not acceptable, you can now get an instant/free quote to upgrade to FTTP.
https://www.nbnco.com.au/learn/technology-choice-program/online-quote
But for me the quote was $41K...
Thanks for that URL, do you still live out in the mountains? I got a quote for $12,717. That's higher than I hoped for but still within the plausible range for business use. Anyone who's interested in having a server in Australia for low latency with speeds up to 400Mb/s can contact me off-list. They also offer a "group switch" deal which reduces the price and hopefully doesn't reduce the speed. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
On 2/12/20 11:04 pm, Russell Coker via luv-main wrote:
I got a quote for $12,717.
My quote is $16,623. Too high for me. Cheers, Andrew -- mailto:andrew@sericyb.com.au Andrew Pam https://sericyb.com.au/ Manager, Serious Cybernetics https://glasswings.com.au/ Partner, Glass Wings
participants (9)
-
Andrew Pam -
Andrew Worsley -
Brian May -
Jason White -
Mike O'Connor -
Robert Brown -
Russell Coker -
Tim Connors -
Tim Hamilton