What's a good xterm and desktop environment
The latest Debian/Unstable has a newer buggier version of Konsole and I'm looking for a new Xterm type program. An ideal Konsole replacement would allow configuration of the field split characters for double-click copy/paste and have a slider at the side for scrolling back (xterm allows the mouse wheel but doesn't have a slider). It would also allow ^+ and ^- to be used for changing font size (as all web browsers seem to do). I'm now in the process of switching from Kmail to Claws. Claws isn't nearly as polished as Kmail (EG it doesn't allow arrow keys to scroll through the list of messages) and isn't as threaded but seems more solid. What's a good desktop replacement for KDE? I want something that looks like OS/2 2.0+, is reasonably fast (not the slow login of modern KDE), and which has widgets for times in multiple time zones and clipboard management. Thanks.
On Mon, 2013-07-15 at 01:00 +1000, Russell Coker wrote:
The latest Debian/Unstable has a newer buggier version of Konsole and I'm looking for a new Xterm type program. An ideal Konsole replacement would allow configuration of the field split characters for double-click copy/paste and have a slider at the side for scrolling back (xterm allows the mouse wheel but doesn't have a slider).
It would also allow ^+ and ^- to be used for changing font size (as all web browsers seem to do).
I'm now in the process of switching from Kmail to Claws. Claws isn't nearly as polished as Kmail (EG it doesn't allow arrow keys to scroll through the list of messages) and isn't as threaded but seems more solid.
What's a good desktop replacement for KDE? I want something that looks like OS/2 2.0+, is reasonably fast (not the slow login of modern KDE), and which has widgets for times in multiple time zones and clipboard management.
What don't you like about gnome? It has a widget for multiple time zones; it does take a while to boot up but I configure auto-login so I just turn the machine on then do some quick chore while the machine is booting up. There is gnome terminal (/usr/bin/gnome-terminal) which is what I use; you can't adjust the font size with ^+ but it is quite simple to create a profile to set the font to a comfortable size. I also set the color scheme to black on gray which is my preference; it has double-click copy/paste, a slider/mouse-wheel and multiple tabs.
On 15/07/13 07:28, David Zuccaro wrote:
What don't you like about gnome? It has a widget for multiple time zones; it does take a while to boot up but I configure auto-login so I just turn the machine on then do some quick chore while the machine is booting up.
What was the last version of GNOME you used?! Fedora 19 with GNOME 3.8 boots from GRUB to fully functional desktop in under 10 seconds for me on both my laptop and desktop.
Jeremy Visser <jeremy@visser.name> writes:
On 15/07/13 07:28, David Zuccaro wrote:
What don't you like about gnome? It has a widget for multiple time zones; it does take a while to boot up but I configure auto-login so I just turn the machine on then do some quick chore while the machine is booting up.
What was the last version of GNOME you used?!
Fedora 19 with GNOME 3.8 boots from GRUB to fully functional desktop in under 10 seconds for me on both my laptop and desktop.
When I tested GNOME3 as at Debian 7 on an Atom D5xx, it took longer than that just to decide whether to enter fallback mode. Removing gnome-shell &c and only leaving the fallback session made it go from xdm to desktop noticably faster. I noticed Windows has a magic "user experience" number, based on how "good" the hardware components are. That lets them say "oh, you're trying to run the fancy minimize animation, but your UX number is only 3.7 -- that's not expected to work". Maybe GNOME should have that.
On Mon, 2013-07-15 at 10:15 +1000, Jeremy Visser wrote:
On 15/07/13 07:28, David Zuccaro wrote:
What don't you like about gnome? It has a widget for multiple time zones; it does take a while to boot up but I configure auto-login so I just turn the machine on then do some quick chore while the machine is booting up.
What was the last version of GNOME you used?!
Fedora 19 with GNOME 3.8 boots from GRUB to fully functional desktop in under 10 seconds for me on both my laptop and desktop.
I'm using gnome 3.4.2.1 with debian wheezy; I have a few startup apps.
Russell Coker <russell@coker.com.au> writes:
I'm looking for a new Xterm type program. An ideal Konsole replacement would allow configuration of the field split characters for double-click copy/paste
I don't know what that means. You want to tweak how it tells where a word ends when you click to select word/line/para ? So e.g. whether "frobozz.quux" is one word or two?
and have a slider at the side for scrolling back (xterm allows the mouse wheel but doesn't have a slider).
Is this what you want? -sb This option indicates that some number of lines that are scrolled off the top of the window should be saved and that a scrollbar should be displayed so that those lines can be viewed. This option may be turned on and off from the “VT Options” menu. xterm's scrollbar is the traditional style -- mouse1 to go up, mouse3 to go down, mouse2 (middle) to go to the point clicked. If you can deal with widget behaviour that predates NOTEPAD.EXE, I don't see a problem.
It would also allow ^+ and ^- to be used for changing font size (as all web browsers seem to do).
urxvt (rxvt-unicode) and xterm are consistently popular. I can definitely recommend the former. For urxvt, I used ! Bind C-0, C-+ and C-= to activate medium, big and small font size respectively. URxvt.font: xft:DejaVu Sans Mono-7 URxvt.keysym.C-minus: command:\033]710;xft:DejaVu Sans Mono-7\007 URxvt.keysym.C-0: command:\033]710;xft:DejaVu Sans Mono\007 URxvt.keysym.C-equal: command:\033]710;xft:DejaVu Sans Mono-19\007 That's not arbitrary sizes, but "big, normal, tiny" was good enough for my needs. (Nowadays, I use setupcon for the same effect.) xterm has it on shift + KP_Plus / KP_minus by default, IIRC, which can be painful on a laptop keyboard. Also if you specify a size, e.g. "xterm -fa Monospace-8" instead of "xterm -fa Monospace", it breaks the resizing.
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013, Trent W. Buck wrote:
xterm has it on shift + KP_Plus / KP_minus by default, IIRC, which can
Ah, that's why shift+ctrl++ was broken for me. Because that's not the right keybinding! If I was engaging the part of my brain that wanted to resize the screen right now rather than just test resizing the screen, it probably would have known that. Stupid brain. (incidentally, my new laptop can drive my 2560x1440 screen now at its native resolution. First time it's ever seen that resolution. I had to reconfigure X to think it was 135dpi instead of 96 though to make text size a bit more reasonable (X knew it was 135dpi, but didn't seem to pass it onto xrandr. Or maybe my spaghetti initialisation scripts overwrote it elsewhere). That's the great thing about Freetype - it scales accordingly.
be painful on a laptop keyboard. Also if you specify a size, e.g. "xterm -fa Monospace-8" instead of "xterm -fa Monospace", it breaks the resizing.
Not if you configure all the alternatives. See my previous email. -- Tim Connors
On 15.07.13 10:39, Trent W. Buck wrote:
Russell Coker <russell@coker.com.au> writes:
I'm looking for a new Xterm type program. An ideal Konsole replacement would allow configuration of the field split characters for double-click copy/paste
I don't know what that means. You want to tweak how it tells where a word ends when you click to select word/line/para ? So e.g. whether "frobozz.quux" is one word or two?
That's what I took it to mean, and am thus reminded that I wasn't satisfied with just one behaviour across all my xterms. My desktop starts with mutt in one xterm, and I set the xterm character class to have double-click grab: # [&%-./:?@] E.g. Complex URLs, including search terms: export M_CC='37-38:48,43:48,45-47:48,58:48,61:48,63-64:48' ... $XTERM $col $f $scroll -geometry ${w}x${l}+720+10 -cc $M_CC -e /usr/bin/mutt & A second xterm displays my personal manpage tome, and it seems best with: # [&-./:=?@~] E.g. all of: of=/dev/rst0 export V_CC='38:48,45-47:48,58:48,61:48,63-64:48,126:48' The remaining two general purpose xterms are set to: # [&-./:?@~] Full pathnames, IPs, email addresses, # simple URLs, lhs or rhs of =: export L_CC='38:48,45-47:48,58:48,63-64:48,126:48' ... $XTERM $col $f $scroll -geometry ${w}x${l}+0+80 -cc $L_CC & The triple-click for whole-of-line still works by default, but I've only ever invoked it by accident. Double-clicking a whole URL in the mail client, selecting only a LHS or RHS of an equation in the general purpose xterms, and grabbing a whole expression in the documentation xterm, are what stops my GUI exposure being a drag. (I always end up without the last character when dragging.) And that works fine in gnome, as well as on whatever LXDE uses. I can't tell any difference, apart from LXDE starting up a bit faster. In gnome, font size is settable with Ctrl-Rightclick, but I just set it with: f='-fn 10x20' in the above examples. That works for me with: col='-fg yellow -bg darkslategrey -cr red' Erik -- Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. - Kenneth Boulding, economist
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013, Russell Coker wrote:
The latest Debian/Unstable has a newer buggier version of Konsole and I'm looking for a new Xterm type program. An ideal Konsole replacement would allow configuration of the field split characters for double-click copy/paste and have a slider at the side for scrolling back (xterm allows the mouse wheel but doesn't have a slider).
'course it does. And like all good things, it's (and the word separator character class) configured through X resources. Settings below are what in my humble opinion (hah!) should be default. Certainly make life more sane. XTerm*on2Clicks: word XTerm*on3Clicks: line XTerm*on4Clicks: group XTerm*on5Clicks: all XTerm*scrollBar: true XTerm*VT100.charClass: 33:33,37:33,45-47:33,64:33 XTerm.VT100.background: rgb:00/00/00 XTerm.VT100.foreground: rgb:60/ff/60 XTerm*Scrollbar.background: black XTerm*Scrollbar.foreground: white XTerm*borderColor: white XTerm*multiScroll: true XTerm*scrollTtyOutput: True XTerm*scrollKey: True ! This resource specifies whether or not to ignore the 'alternate screen' ! of applications such as vi. When it is on, these applications will restore ! the contents of the screen when they are exited to what they were before ! they were started. When it is off, the contents of vi will remain on the ! screen after the program is quit (seriously, who do I shoot to make sure ! that this ridiculous concept never appears again?) XTerm.VT100.titeInhibit: true !and then allow an extra screenfull of scroll when screen "alternated" XTerm.VT100.tiXtraScroll: true
It would also allow ^+ and ^- to be used for changing font size (as all web browsers seem to do).
'fraid it can't do that. You'll have to put up with ctrl-shift++/- instead (at least, that seems to be how I've bound them). Oh look at that, my keyboard setup has broken since I upgraded to wheezy. Both keybindings appear as "go-smaller", but my xmodmap is quite hacked up, so no one should be surprised. Shows you how often I use it! !http://www.leonerd.org.uk/hacks/hints/xterm-sensible.html XTerm*VT100.faceName: DejaVu Sans Mono XTerm*VT100.boldFont: DejaVu Sans Mono:style=Bold XTerm*VT100.faceSize: 9 !doesn't seem to set the relative sizes as monotonically increasing - can't slot default size=11 in between facesize4 and facesize5 !FIXME: Need to fix this to enable on non debian hosts !FIXME: enabled on debian testing aatpc2. works there... XTerm*VT100.faceSize1: 1 XTerm*VT100.faceSize2: 5 XTerm*VT100.faceSize3: 7 XTerm*VT100.faceSize4: 11 XTerm*VT100.faceSize5: 14 XTerm*VT100.faceSize6: 17 XTerm*VT100.Font2: -*-dejavu sans mono-medium-r-*-*-8-*-*-*-*-*-iso10646-1 XTerm*VT100.Font3: -*-dejavu sans mono-medium-r-*-*-10-*-*-*-*-*-iso10646-1 XTerm*VT100.Font: -*-dejavu sans mono-medium-r-*-*-14-*-*-*-*-*-iso10646-1 XTerm*VT100.Font4: -*-dejavu sans mono-medium-r-*-*-18-*-*-*-*-*-iso10646-1 XTerm*VT100.Font5: -*-dejavu sans mono-medium-r-*-*-20-*-*-*-*-*-iso10646-1 XTerm*VT100.Font6: -*-dejavu sans mono-medium-r-*-*-24-*-*-*-*-*-iso10646-1
What's a good desktop replacement for KDE?
FVWM. /troll only half serious
I want something that looks like OS/2 2.0+,
I wouldn't be surprised if it's configurable for that.
is reasonably fast (not the slow login of modern KDE), and which has widgets for times in multiple time zones and clipboard management.
wmcliphist. aw, no longer in debian. I swear, software never improves. I'm going back to the abacus. -- Tim Connors
On 15 July 2013 11:58, Tim Connors <tconnors@rather.puzzling.org> wrote:
Settings below are what in my humble opinion (hah!) should be default. Certainly make life more sane.
I also have: XTerm.vt100.translations: #override \n\ Shift <KeyPress> KP_Multiply:secure() \n\ ~Shift~Ctrl<Btn2Up>: insert-selection(PRIMARY, CUT_BUFFER0) \n\ Shift~Ctrl<Btn2Up>: insert-selection(CLIPBOARD, CUT_BUFFER1) \n\ <BtnUp>: select-end(PRIMARY, CLIPBOARD, CUT_BUFFER0, CUT_BUFFER1) \n\ Ctrl Shift <KeyPress> Y: insert-selection(CLIPBOARD, CUT_BUFFER1) The first one sets up secure mode - good for typing in passwords without the risk of a chat window popping up, stealing focus, and getting my password. If only I would remember to use it... The rest supports CLIPBOARD (cut/copy/paste) as well as CUT_BUFFER0 (middle button) for cut and paste. Was getting annoyed with the increasing number of websites that don't seem to work properly with middle mouse button paste (e.g. request tracker). I only wish I could do these with rxvt. xterm seems to have problems at times displaying certain Unicode characters compared with any other program. (Note last I extensively tested this was with Ubuntu 12.04). Brian May
Brian May <brian@microcomaustralia.com.au> writes:
The first one sets up secure mode - good for typing in passwords without the risk of a chat window popping up, stealing focus, and getting my password. If only I would remember to use it...
Hm, do I misremember you as a ratpoison user? It has a "rudeness" setting which can forcibly disable popups &c.
On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 11:14:02 AM Trent W. Buck wrote:
Hm, do I misremember you as a ratpoison user? It has a "rudeness" setting which can forcibly disable popups &c.
I think Brian is using awesome now, rather than ratpoison. -- Chris Samuel : http://www.csamuel.org/ : Melbourne, VIC This email may come with a PGP signature as a file. Do not panic. For more info see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenPGP
Tim Connors <tconnors@rather.puzzling.org> writes:
clipboard management.
wmcliphist. aw, no longer in debian. I swear, software never improves. I'm going back to the abacus.
There's a bunch of stand-alone clipboard managers in apt, because the gnome one is built into gnome-settings-daemon, so you can't have it without pulling in a lot of other shit you don't want (e.g. last time I used it, g-s-d would turn off your .xmodmap and .gtkrc-2.0 and use its own versions from %gconf-tree.xml). I can't vouch for any of them. If I need to copy something into webkit, I write it to /tmp/x then browse to file:///tmp/x and copy from within the browser. (I don't need to do it much.)
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013, Trent W. Buck wrote:
Tim Connors <tconnors@rather.puzzling.org> writes:
clipboard management.
wmcliphist. aw, no longer in debian. I swear, software never improves. I'm going back to the abacus.
There's a bunch of stand-alone clipboard managers in apt, because the gnome one is built into gnome-settings-daemon, so you can't have it without pulling in a lot of other shit you don't want (e.g. last time I used it, g-s-d would turn off your .xmodmap and .gtkrc-2.0 and use its own versions from %gconf-tree.xml).
Heh, I just disabled g-s-d the other day after upgrading to wheezy and discovering that it and dconf have now taken over the screensaver despite xscreensaver running. As is standard practice with all things gnome, there's no documentation of how to disable this. Ideally I'd be able to give it a whitelist of things it is allowed to touch rather than work out what it has stolen and blacklist if possible.
I can't vouch for any of them. If I need to copy something into webkit, I write it to /tmp/x then browse to file:///tmp/x and copy from within the browser. (I don't need to do it much.)
cat bin/mozclip.sh # which is bound to Alt-F1-e in fvwm #!/bin/bash
# This program takes the X clipboard buffer, and runs mozilla with the URL in the clipboard. # For use when the browser of choice doesn't for example support flash, and you want mozilla # to display it URL=`xcb -S 0 ; xcb -p 0` # store into primary, then print. Not &&, because sometimes the store fails, but the primary still contains a useful selection reset_type # xcb stores UTF8_STRING. This breaks emacs: bug #649837 Reset the cut buffer to STRING, which of course nulls out the contents of the buffer, but that's fine, because we have already copied it. echo "$URL" | cat2linesurl.sh # takes any number of lines, strips leading and trailing whitespace and fires off a $BROWSER
cat reset_type.c: #include <stdio.h> #include <stdlib.h> #include <X11/Xlib.h> #include <X11/Xatom.h> int main() { Display *dpy; Window window; int i; unsigned char *data = ""; dpy = XOpenDisplay(NULL); window = RootWindow(dpy, 0); for (i = 9; i < 17; i++) { printf("i = %d\n", i); XChangeProperty(dpy, window, (Atom)i, XA_STRING, 8, PropModeReplace, data, 0); } XFlush(dpy);
exit(0); } -- Tim Connors
Trent W. Buck <twb@cyber.com.au> wrote:
I can't vouch for any of them. If I need to copy something into webkit, I write it to /tmp/x then browse to file:///tmp/x and copy from within the browser. (I don't need to do it much.)
It might be faster just to use xclip -selection clip instead. (It reads from stdin and writes the contents to the X clipboard, or the selection if that's what you would prefer - see the manual page). Define it in a shell alias for even quicker interaction.
Jason White <jason@jasonjgw.net> writes:
Trent W. Buck <twb@cyber.com.au> wrote:
I can't vouch for any of them. If I need to copy something into webkit, I write it to /tmp/x then browse to file:///tmp/x and copy from within the browser. (I don't need to do it much.)
It might be faster just to use xclip -selection clip instead. (It reads from stdin and writes the contents to the X clipboard, or the selection if that's what you would prefer - see the manual page).
Meh; ICBF making a habit of using one of those. It's not a big deal. Re selections, see http://www.jwz.org/doc/x-cut-and-paste.html
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 01:00:11AM +1000, Russell Coker wrote:
The latest Debian/Unstable has a newer buggier version of Konsole and I'm looking for a new Xterm type program. An ideal Konsole replacement would allow configuration of the field split characters for double-click copy/paste and have a slider at the side for scrolling back (xterm allows the mouse wheel but doesn't have a slider).
It would also allow ^+ and ^- to be used for changing font size (as all web browsers seem to do).
My favourite for a long time was mrxvt - it's extremely fast (much faster than of the libvte based terms). I had to give it up about a year ago because I could no longer get away with ignoring unicode and hoping it would go away :) i settled on roxterm as being the best of the libvte-based terminals. works pretty well with default settings, but has some nice configuration options. it has all three of your requirements (configurable mouse selection, optional scrollbar on either left or right, and resize with ^+ & ^-), but i think pretty nearly all modern terminals do these days. xterm is probably the only one that doesn't.
What's a good desktop replacement for KDE? I want something that looks like OS/2 2.0+, is reasonably fast (not the slow login of modern KDE), and which has widgets for times in multiple time zones and clipboard management.
that really depends on what features you use most from KDE. i switched from gnome 2 to xfce some time ago. it does what i want without being annoying (i.e. without trying to force an "experience" on me). i expect you could find an os/2-ish theme for xfce, xfce-look.org would be the place to search. it has a clipboard manager, but i have no idea how it compares to KDE's. dunno about the multi-time zone clock. i'm sure there are generic apps to do that, but i think you mean an applet that stays in the panel or on the desktop. craig -- craig sanders <cas@taz.net.au> BOFH excuse #363: Out of cards on drive D:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 01:00:11 AM Russell Coker wrote:
The latest Debian/Unstable has a newer buggier version of Konsole and I'm looking for a new Xterm type program.
Which versions of Konsole and KDE are these? Have you got a bug report I could take a look at? cheers! Chris -- Chris Samuel : http://www.csamuel.org/ : Melbourne, VIC This email may come with a PGP signature as a file. Do not panic. For more info see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenPGP
On 15/07/13 20:50, Chris Samuel wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 01:00:11 AM Russell Coker wrote:
The latest Debian/Unstable has a newer buggier version of Konsole and I'm looking for a new Xterm type program.
Which versions of Konsole and KDE are these?
Have you got a bug report I could take a look at?
cheers! Chris
having no issues with KDE-4.10.4 and konsole 2.10.4 on Fedora 18, but you are probably pushing these products much further than I am Steve
participants (11)
-
Brian May -
Chris Samuel -
Craig Sanders -
David Zuccaro -
Erik Christiansen -
Jason White -
Jeremy Visser -
Russell Coker -
Steve Roylance -
Tim Connors -
twb＠cyber.com.au