Disincorporation: why I changed my mind and will vote yes
Hi folks, I've found the discussions really useful, thanks all. The issues around the rules from the state government and how they change and what they require has made me reconsider my position on disincorporation of LUV. Previously I was neutral with a slight tendency against it but having seen all the rules that LUV has to deal with and the fact there are quite real penalties for not being in compliance with them then I see that as quite a burden and liability for LUV and something we would likely be better off without. Linux Australia appears to be better resourced to deal with those issues and there is an appeal to make that compliance somebody elses problem and to let the local group just get on with doing Linux related things. So I've changed my mind and will be voting yes for d14n tonight. All the best, Chris -- Chris Samuel : http://www.csamuel.org/ : Melbourne, VIC
Dear Chris, While I respect your right to vote yes, I wish to point out to you that you are suggesting that LUV is unable to deal with what you consider are challenges in it dealing with the rules. I believe that as a mature, active and living organisation, these matter are entirely within the domain of LUV to deal with in due course, and I am more than willing to take that challenge myself. In fact the view that the rules need to be reviewed and updated has already been flagged as a possible task for the next LUV Ctte. I will try my best to see that this happen if I get the opportunity. And by the way, I also point out the following, and this applies to all those who are inclined to vote for the resolution: There is nothing inconsistent in having a Subcommittee of LA and LUV inc BOTH existing. If you believe that the best interest of the Linux Communittee and yours are best served by a Subcommittee of LA, there is nothing to stop it being created right now - and that does NOT require a disolution of LUV. It is entirely possible for both to coexist and excel at their own tasks. Forking is not an unknown event in the foss community! I would suggest to you that the proper thing perhaps for you to do is to abstain and that also will entail you respecting the choice of those to keep LUV as it is. And your beliefs will also be fully respected in you doing so. Cheers Daniel. On 03/09/13 12:09, Chris Samuel wrote:
Hi folks,
I've found the discussions really useful, thanks all.
The issues around the rules from the state government and how they change and what they require has made me reconsider my position on disincorporation of LUV.
Previously I was neutral with a slight tendency against it but having seen all the rules that LUV has to deal with and the fact there are quite real penalties for not being in compliance with them then I see that as quite a burden and liability for LUV and something we would likely be better off without.
Linux Australia appears to be better resourced to deal with those issues and there is an appeal to make that compliance somebody elses problem and to let the local group just get on with doing Linux related things.
So I've changed my mind and will be voting yes for d14n tonight.
All the best, Chris
On Tue, 3 Sep 2013, Daniel Jitnah <djitnah@greenwareit.com.au> wrote:
There is nothing inconsistent in having a Subcommittee of LA and LUV inc BOTH existing. If you believe that the best interest of the Linux Communittee and yours are best served by a Subcommittee of LA, there is nothing to stop it being created right now - and that does NOT require a disolution of LUV. It is entirely possible for both to coexist and excel at their own tasks. Forking is not an unknown event in the foss community!
There would be no point in duplicating the organisation.
I would suggest to you that the proper thing perhaps for you to do is to abstain and that also will entail you respecting the choice of those to keep LUV as it is. And your beliefs will also be fully respected in you doing so.
The "proper" thing to do is to stop telling other people that they shouldn't vote! Democracy is about respecting the wishes of the voters, not doing whatever it takes to make your side win. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/
On a related note, if anyone who is planning on voting Liberal could not show up to vote on Saturday - cheers. On 3 September 2013 16:23, Russell Coker <russell@coker.com.au> wrote:
On Tue, 3 Sep 2013, Daniel Jitnah <djitnah@greenwareit.com.au> wrote:
There is nothing inconsistent in having a Subcommittee of LA and LUV inc BOTH existing. If you believe that the best interest of the Linux Communittee and yours are best served by a Subcommittee of LA, there is nothing to stop it being created right now - and that does NOT require a disolution of LUV. It is entirely possible for both to coexist and excel at their own tasks. Forking is not an unknown event in the foss community!
There would be no point in duplicating the organisation.
I would suggest to you that the proper thing perhaps for you to do is to abstain and that also will entail you respecting the choice of those to keep LUV as it is. And your beliefs will also be fully respected in you doing so.
The "proper" thing to do is to stop telling other people that they shouldn't vote!
Democracy is about respecting the wishes of the voters, not doing whatever it takes to make your side win.
-- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ _______________________________________________ luv-main mailing list luv-main@luv.asn.au http://lists.luv.asn.au/listinfo/luv-main
On 3/09/2013 4:41 PM, thelionroars wrote:
On a related note, if anyone who is planning on voting Liberal could not show up to vote on Saturday - cheers.
And most certainly if you don't want to see waste with the Liberal Fraudband version of the cobbled NBN with aging copper and loads of nodes wasting power, offering low speeds and all the other issues of such a solution. Any monies spent on the stop-gap and far inferior solution will be virtually 100% wasted monies; because we will need to re-visit this whole thing again at a later date ... do it once, do it right, do it with fibre -- far more economical and far more miserly on public funds. There is only one positive for the Abbott Internet /solution/ and that is, some people will get faster speeds sooner, but I would rather wait for real improvements over comparatively minor improvements and get much faster speeds a little later. http://abbottsinternet.com.au/ http://www.iwantmynbn.com.au/the_facts Oh and don't bother listening to Albanese, he is an embarrassment given his total lack of understanding of the NBN; he is comparing NBN to dialup, which for most people is long gone ... a simple comparison of NBN against DSL is more appropriate -- the chasm is still wide enough to make a very significant difference. I do know that some people are still limited to dialup, but many, many more are at distance with DSL and suffer the tyranny of distance, bu still have some kind of broadband (just at the slow end of DSL). Cheers A.
G'day -
Democracy is about respecting the wishes of the voters, not doing whatever it takes to make your side win.
Is it not a false dichotomy? As for joining larger organization in order to comply to increasing regulations - that's how corporations grow at cost of smaller fish. Regards Slav "This e-mail and any attachments to it (the "Communication") is, unless otherwise stated, confidential, may contain copyright material and is for the use only of the intended recipient. If you receive the Communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete the Communication and the return e-mail, and do not read, copy, retransmit or otherwise deal with it. Any views expressed in the Communication are those of the individual sender only, unless expressly stated to be those of Australia and New Zealand Banking Group Limited ABN 11 005 357 522, or any of its related entities including ANZ Bank New Zealand Limited (together "ANZ"). ANZ does not accept liability in connection with the integrity of or errors in the Communication, computer virus, data corruption, interference or delay arising from or in respect of the Communication."
Democracy is about respecting the wishes of the voters, not doing whatever it takes to make your side win.
Even deeper than that, it's about respecting the wishes of all the voters, including those on the "losing" side. Otherwise it's just dictatorship of the majority. Sure, decisions have to be made, but as far as possible they should be respectful of all. -- Smiles, Les.
participants (7)
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Andrew McGlashan -
Chris Samuel -
Daniel Jitnah -
Les Kitchen -
Pidgorny, Slav (GEUS) -
Russell Coker -
thelionroars