PS, Hmmmmmmmmmm, it seems i may have made this a bit sort of "flame"ish, Oh well, this one is certainly not happy with the current situation. After a considerable amount of time thinking I decideced at least to give my view point on the current problem here. As far as I am concerned trying to change someones mind is a battle lost even before ones has purchased the weapons and organised the army, simply not worth the pain. Now I have always maintained in order to understand something properly one __MUST__ have a good background on the basic principles. Any kind of suppressing discusions of such subjects is a major backward step. A far as I can see from the replies on this thread this is actually shunned on these lists in favor of _only_ linux discussions. A Linux desktop system consists of way more than the kernel and a bunch of libraries and other programs. I believe one should be able to discuss and post items on these other topics without being belted over the back of the head with a line of words ;-). The advice given to either post to luv-talk or simply to pretend the moderaters have walked off a cliff just dodges the issue and this is effectively forcing ignorance in some form and this is something I have no time for, and I do mean __NO__ time for. Important point, this last item is something that __REALLY__ bothers me, that is the group is in some way enforcing some level of ignorance. Lindsay