On Tue, Dec 24, 2013 at 10:23:30PM +1100, Jeremy Visser wrote:
On 24/12/13 21:06, Craig Sanders wrote:
On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 08:48:45PM +1100, Allan Duncan wrote:
I _like_ to use vi and grep to find traces of whatever I was trying to extract from messages. newsflash: you are wrong.
it doesn't matter what you think you like, or what you think your needs might be - you are just plain wrong. systemd's author knows better than you.
welcome to the new Lennartix mono-culture. your distro will be assimilated.
Can you please refrain from posting crap? (In case it was supposed to be funny, it was pretty lame.)
it's funny only in the sense that all things that suck are funny - in a sad, depressing way.
Again, as I said before, journalctl doesn???t prevent you from doing any of that. Your Lennart-bashing is currently based on a strawman.
you say that as if there's some reason, any reason, why i should give a shit what you say. i don't really give a fuck what you've said before or what you believe - who the fuck are you that your opinion is greater than anyone else's? and who the fuck are you that your opinion has any value to anyone other than yourself?
I don???t know about you, but I thought this was pretty straightforward:
and there you go proving my point: he's wrong because lennartix provides a rough analog of what he wants to do, and he only needs to be re-educated to truly believe in the One True Way for him to be happy. to lennartix groupies, whatever existing (i.e. old-fashioned and therefore stupid) method or preference someone has for doing something is wrong and obsolete and completely irrelevant because lennartix provides some half-arsed emulation that can kind of be forced to do something vaguely similar to what they actually wanted to do. hooray! problem solved! and they were a moron for wanting to do it any other way, right? THAT is the attitude of systemd developers and pushers that pisses people off. it really doesn't matter if lennartix provides some way of doing something - that's not the issue. the problem is that in lennartix, poettering's way is the ONLY way and pottering's monolithic monstrosity is absorbing every system function and destroying the concept of modularity and replacability in the process. while some of the things about systemd may work quite nicely and/or are useful or interesting concepts, the mono-culture that will result from poettering's implementation and the inevitable death of innovation which that mono-culture brings is not worth it. especially when all of the relatively minor benefits that systemd brings can be achieved without creating a monolithic system or a mono-culture. systemd just isn't anywhere near good enough to justify the price. nothing could ever be good enough to be worth that price. and it's certainly not worth the replacement of well-documented behaviour between sub-systems with whatever the undocmented whim of the week is for pottering's latest absorption target. partial C library documentation and NO communications protocol documentation is not enough. and "read (this week's) source (for a dozen or so different excessively integrated subsystems) if you want to try to figure out how it works (and hope it doesn't change too much before you're finished)" is nowhere near good enough either. and no, a dozen or so self-praising blog posts extolling the beauty of the Grand and Glorious Vision doesn't cut it either. you may think lennartix's magic black box is good enough for your systems. good for you. you are entitled to your opinion. but don't go ramming it down everyone's throat, or telling me, or anyone else, to shut up if we disagree, as if yours is the only valid opinion on the subject. you can take your One True Way and shove it. True Believers (in anything) are always a menace. and getting all caught up in the branding and marketing hype of redhat's commercial war with Canonical is just plain stupid. it's no accident that RH are pushing gnome and systemd while canonical are pushing upstart and unity - they're takeover bids for the future of linux, the modern day equivalent of the old proprietary unix wars, and it would truly suck if either side actually won. corporations already effectively control linux, a fact that's pragmatically tolerable because the (usually) co-operative competition results in useful improvements. either side - any side - winning would be a disaster. craig -- craig sanders <cas@taz.net.au>