On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 09:32:14PM +1100, Russell Coker wrote:
Actually the Gmail users didn't do anything, they just signed up for a mail service knowing nothing about DKIM or the Gmail actions that would happen when they received DKIM signed mail via a list.
it's really difficult to have much sympathy for the technical problems experienced by people who chose to use a spyware service run by a giant corporation. They CHOSE to have no control over their mail, they get to just suck it up and accept whatever problems that causes. They don't get to assume that their abdication of responsibility for their own email automatically entitle them to cause problems for others.
So this is really a debate about who's the most elite under the guise of discussing list headers?
WTF has "elite" got to do with it? if you choose to use a crappy service, you get a crappy service. same as if you choose to eat dogfood out of a can or, worse, McDonalds, you get to eat crappy pseudo-food. choosing crap means you get crap. that's just one of the unalterable facts about how the universe works. you can't choose crap things and magically get good things.
Look, the major problem with DMARC is that it uses the From: header.
If it used the Sender: header instead (or used it IF it exists in the headers), then mailman could do the right thing by stripping attachments, changing the encoding, or whatever and declare that the list was the Sender: and DKIM sign it.
Well that wasn't what DMARC was designed to do.
DMARC's design is broken.
We have to either make the list work with mail to/from such services or exclude them from the lists.
so? how is that different to any other site or individual who deliberately (or incompetently) breaks the expected standards? are google and facebook and yahoo etc allowed to redefine standards just by breaking them and demanding that everyone else follows their new way? who else is allowed to do that? do you have to be a mega-corporation with billions of dollars or is that priviledge available to us peasants too? craig -- craig sanders <cas@taz.net.au> BOFH excuse #320: You've been infected by the Telescoping Hubble virus.