On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 04:05:47AM +0000, Russell Coker wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jan 2016 02:11:32 AM Craig Sanders via luv-main wrote:
On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 12:31:47PM +1100, Russell Coker wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jan 2016 08:36:30 AM Craig Sanders via luv-main wrote: Why are we having an argument about comments then? If they are just comments then it shouldn't be a big deal.
because munging them screws up an MUAs ability to reply correctly.
That means that they aren't comments.
as far as an MTA is concerned, they're comments. rejecting mail based on the From: header is fundamentally broken. Lists mangling the From: header to prevent broken MTAs from rejecting the mail is a) pandering to brokenness and b) broken in itself. MUAs make use of various message headers (but even then it's still a mistake to think of them as addressing info - MTAs are responsible for delivery, so what they define as address info is what is relevant in that context). MTAs don't and shouldn't.
because overwriting the Reply-To: header can make it impossible to reply to the original sender.
I'm up for negotiating on that matter.
what's to negotiate? you're either going to fix the damage you caused or you're not. i'm not going to beg you to do what. you're the list admin, if you insist on breaking the list, there's nothing i can do about it.
because what mailman is doing with DMARC is broken.
It's doing the best it can in a difficult situation.
even if you can manage to think of that as being only partly broken, partly broken is still broken. it's doing the wrong thing with DMARC. that means it's a "feature" that shouldn't be used.
I fixed it, mail is now being delivered reliably. If you want "comments" to be different in email then you can help figure out how to do that without compromising mail reliability.
you haven't fixed anything. you've solved one minor problem that affected only a handful of people (who inflicted it on themselves by using DKIM) at the cost of screwing up the From: and Reply-To: headers on all messages forwarded by the list, which affects all subscribers.
I have things working quite well so I have little incentive to change Mailman code.
no, you don't have things working well. you have broken the From: and Reply-To: headers.
Translation: You think that Yahoogroups, the Mailman developers and everyone else have got it wrong
the fact that yahoogroups does it is undeniable proof that it's wrong. they never get anything right, they've been screwing up mail since the 90s. the mailman devs have obviously got it wrong. even they admit that their implementation is buggy and broken.
but can't be bothered showing us all how to do it in a way that you like.
you're assuming that there is such a way. IMO DMARC is broken-by-design so it's impossible to do it in any good or even reasonable way. in other words: the way i'd like is to not do it at all. i've said that repeatedly. craig -- craig sanders <cas@taz.net.au>